You have a point.
Giving out free tokens can potentially drain the value or fund of the DAO and also the prize counter.
So for the genesis, it would be better let ppl buy Game Tokens using GHST.
You have a point.
What are your thoughts on free play during XP events? At other times you could permit the use of kinship as tickets, these free play tickets will not allow placement on the leaderboard or make them eligible for prizes. Once the kinship tickets run out(or you want to play for reals), it would be necessary to play via purchased arcade tokens.
I have a lot of questions In setting up the Gotchi Arcade Dao:
You are going to need somebody to build and manage the contracts to work with the Daohaus minions. How will you decide how to pay this person that is not a game developer, and how much?
A team community to manage the assets and decide what games and developers to onboard, and payments to working members. How will you decide the core members and what will the selection process look like? This is a bit fuzzy to me.
Do you think some seed money would be necessary in creating the Aavegotchi Aarcade Dao? Perhaps it’s members could pay(like an ico) to gain a seat and contribute to its development? I wonder if this should be a Dao officially sanctioned by Pixelcraft/Aavegotchi Dao. Would it be reasonable and warranted to seek a vote in through proposals to gain Officialdom?
However, we need to address the issue that @UnfitStone raised: does giving players to play for free won’t help the fund to develop?
If developers are releasing a test game/ demo to see if enough players are interested, it would be fine to be free2play. Kinship can also be used to charge up stamina for playing ( of coz kinship won’t be consumed)
When the game gained enough support to be an XP event, then the game tokens mechanism can then be deployed. Using GHST to buy game tokens to play minigames. The pay to play mechanism can then be deployed in XP events.
There’s an proposal of using FRENS as a medium for exchange of game tokens and I would like to bring this to discuss as well.
The problem is after XP event, should we make them free-2-play by kinship or pay by game tokens? This can be a mix though. So when stamina is depleted one can buy some game tokens in order to keep playing.
As for your questions @Kokusho , there are a lot of them so I try to break them up first.
So for pay checks, the DAO would need to discuss. Is it 50:50 between the dev team of that game and the fund or other fee structure? We need to come up with that as well.
For core members, I’m inviting people who already deployed minigames and people who are going to deploy minigames to the Aarcade DAO.
Currently the selection process is TBD.
Right now I’m still figuring out DaoHaus, so right now the on boarding fee is 10 wMATIC, as “loot” I think.
There’s more but I need to think deeply in order to give you a good answer…
Pushing this. I think we need to made clear the triangle relationship between the Aarcade DAO , Aavegotchi DAO and Pixelcraft Studio
What if we just use FRENS to buy aaTRY if ur try4free is over already?
I think if we will implement use case of FRENS for mini-games = FRENS holders more happy + we can make a Season Paas tickets to the baazaar to buy it with GHST - dat ticket will give an access to the whole szn, and cost mb like a 10ghst for ex?
I really want to reward all dat gotchis dat gimme those games to play, and content and stuff.
What if, CONTINUE tickets sales will be set-up in Maal (actually maal should be a place where is the stuff is always on stock lol, then this will be the first item offering to be unlimited)
Unlimited CONTINUE tickets will hold a straight reward to the devs and dao 50\50
Or sth like that.
So you are proposing players to use FRENS to purchase CONTINUE tickets, which is a ticket to be spent on game retries, am I correct?
My thoughts is that way, yes.
I think it will be two side engagement.
FRENS to buy a aaTRY will be recycled and GHST income will go to the DAO and GotchiDevs
sorry, my mind goes fster then fingers, so i can get messed up with wrapping the idea sometimes.
We buy aaTRY with FRENS in mini-games UIs, and CONTINUES tickets in maal for a Season Paas.
Frens for trying more - aaTRY (lol not a token, but just having fun with names lol)
Ghst for Continue tickets = Seasonal Paas
Also posting @memerberries fee structure here,
so he proposes adding a staking GHST method to the Aarcade.
So there will be 2 methods:
- (A) Stake X GHST to get Y game tokens
- (B) Stake at least 100 GHST to play as much as you like
Stakers will need to pay a 3% deposit fee and they earn a yield from the funds paid by ‘pay2earn’ players.
Those paid funds can be split among the leaderboard bounty/ dividend to top score players and also AarcadeDAO, stakers and developers.
There is also a 3rd method which is staking Wearables to earn yield and play indefinite times but stakers bear risk of being liquidated. To avoid that the staker need to achieve certain score/ranking.
If liquidated the wearable will be sold off in Bazaar and then the GHST will be spread among the top players.
Somehow I find this method really complicated and frankly speaking it’s a lot of work for devs to be sure…
- Yes, I think this method is achievable
- Needs more improvement
- No, it’s not achievable
What’s the usage of aaTRY then?
I think we have enough of sources for rewarding pools.
We have a convo for a devs motivations, so i want to put this dat way only, funds for devs.
Okay, I’m cool to share with DAO n PixelCraft, but users who don’t contribute with the making games or wearables or any other content should not be rewarded - cuz i simply see no reason to share dev accumulated funds with the boys i just play with, lol.
I think, we can make a GotchiDevsRewardingPool GDRP, GDRP and it’s going to be like a treasury for DEVs only?
Cuz as i think this would motive ppl to get in the code much more.
AaTry will be used for one more time to play only = 5 FREN mb?
To make ppl who dont have much to be able to play moar + dont get rekt with spending GHST.
But ppl who dont want to waste the time to pay with FRENS everytime, 1 aaTry = 1 more game to loose, lol.
CONTINUES basicaly will save our time, and for the whole season. + It will paid in GHST and aaTry only with a FRENS
aaTRY is ticket to retry 1 time.
CONTINUE is a pass for players to continue indefinite times.
Yeah - aaTRY just for a try lol, 5 Frens - 1 time. - no market
CONTINUE aka Seasonal Paas - 10 ghst for all da games infinity retry. - unlimited supply in maal.
One idea we’ve been floating internally that would be quite easy to implement is a token that you exchange in order to have unlimited access to the Aarcade. This could be done onchain and easily verified. Maybe it’s GHST, or FRENS, or Tickets, could be anything really.
The difficult part would be keeping track of playtime for various games and paying developers. I imagine it would be more like the Spotify model where the end user pays for unlimited access, and the platform pays the artists.
Actually, which is harder in terms of development?
Keeping track of play time or keeping tracking of number of plays ?
So far been thinking that a subscription plan maybe more achievable .
Like “Pay X GHST to play un-limited times within a timeframe”
Exactly, so let’s make it easy, and make a different subscription plans:
Season = 4 games
We just need to make it able to be few options to choose from - A) an all season subscription, B) 1 or multiple games (1-3) not a full plan, C) 1 time payments per try, cuz mb not all of the gotchis or liquidators will want to pay for the Pass.
If we want to make it like a service - Mini-games-as-a-Service - lol - we can put discounts on subscriptions like :
1 game SP (season pass) - normal price
2 games - 10% discount
3 games - 15% discount
All seasn = 4 games - 25% discount
New idea - durable items for mini-games, kind of as it was presented in TD, but it seems like it was too OP, cuz grenades’ were infinity supply, EZ 15exp lol.
So if we will put a VendingMachine for Gotchis, lil Faair theme sounds dope, where they can buy or fix the items they have to continue using benefits (ofc u cant smith the grenades’ but u can buy moar)
About the DaoHAUS, adding members into the DAO is taking very long.
This is some of my experience with DaoHAUS and currently looking forward that the DaoHaus team can improve for MolochV3.
Let’s see what we can do with it
I dived down the rabbit hole to find this thread just to post my opinions as I had an old project that tried to create an arcade protocol so here are some old notes to help out and give my opinion:
To add onto this post, multiple rewards models need to be debated and considered and honestly multiple rewards distribution models should be allowed in the beginning. Honestly I don’t think one model should be used over the rest because different games would do rewards differently. One minigame may be a contest so there will be losers that don’t get anything, and the other is a minigame RPG with in game currency that splits the lobby’s total staked amount across the currencies each player allocated.
Subscription models are a terrible idea in my opinion and should require a premium purchase option for each game as well. The only way to have subscription be fair is if it were allotted for game creators at a specific rate. An equation regarding a games plays per day/month/year, age, downloads per day/month/year, should be used to ascertain a game’s current worth to determine monthly royalty payouts to the game creators. This is all trusting the developers to be good people, which already seems a bit centralized. I just don’t really trust a subscription model, but it could be an option to game creators. As a matter of fact, there should be many financial options for players, but it needs to be an improvement among the typical GameFi structure where checks and balances are needed.
Original Use Case (I believe it’s similar to cartridges):
Actors: Game Creator, Contest Creator, Player
Assets: Master NFT, Slave NFT
Player 1 can’t afford to buy a game, but there is an arcade option known as the slave NFT, a version of the game that requires a fee per play, like an arcade cabinet game. The fee structure is set by the game creator for the slave NFT game. I want to play that game, but I can’t/don’t want to/can’t afford to buy it
Player 2 wants to buy the game, they pay a one time premium fee set by the game creator and own 1 NFT copy of the game and can play it as many times as they want. I want to buy the game
Player 3 owns the game, has played it a long time, and believes they are better than most people. Player 3 starts a gaming contest, open on the lobbies to players to try to have the highest score for the highest reward. This is using cryptocurrency to revive a dead icon of 90s culture, arcade contests. It’s not exactly gambling, it’s a contest of skill and people that enter fund the purse. It’s also important to note that the reward distribution structure is where everything goes wrong. Players that own the Master NFT game can make contests, and should be able to have multiple to choose from. A lot of rewards involve a problematic quantity reward structure, which sucks. A contest that says prizes are for the top 10,000 players, simply isn’t as good as a contest that gives prizes to the top X% of players. This is because traditional gaming has a capacity of a few million (made up this figure), but the metaverse is meant to service hundreds of millions of players (Also made up but eventually it will engulf traditional(US,EU) and emerging(India, Philipines) markets), and this is only the beginning. Each gaming contest needs a max time the contest can go on, preventing clutter. Rewards should be paid with contest creators choice, it seems everyone loves FRENS but I’d rather get GLTR as a reward. contest creators decide the contest entry fee. I own the game, I’ve played many years, and I believe I can make money against other players, I will take the risk of smart contract deployment, as it’s possible no one will play within the time frame
In short, a gaming contest contract is easy. Take in a score per entry fee and stake money, end contest after certain conditions, pay out due to rewards structure set by contest creator and agreed upon by every player. The rewards structure needs be shown to each player on a graph so they understand the risks. Some contests might reward the top 10%, but others will be more fair for the top 50%.
imho, minigames should be free to play, it is the best part to give a gotchi skins and show them on the leaderboards.