EYS and EYC Trait Implementation in the Gotchiverse

[HARDKOR]

I’ve always felt that the collateral eyes were getting a unique special ability.

I kind of die a little inside when someone suggests that its too much work to do one up for each.

I’m thinking maybe we reserve the unique specials, for pass 2, because when we hammer out the wearable abilities, then we will have the full list to work from, and an idea of how many things that will affect.

My basic idea at this point, is that we find some farming traits we can attach as a core mechanic, then save the obviously popular things like treasure affinity and unique specials, for pass two.

It might be sufficient to say, eye color is the minimap radar, with speed of pings, and range of pings, being the based on the numerical scale, committing to making each eye shape have its own unique effect, pulled from same list as the wearables, and committing to adding treasure affinities, RPG flavor, and UI improvements, as those things become the part of the current dev cycle.

[Honeymoon]

Definitely agree regarding the unique special abilities. I was a little hesitant to support it at first, but I think they will add fun variability to everyone’s gotchi.

I definitely understand the reasoning behind your ideas regarding affinities and/or farming traits; it would be very easy to program in for the devs, and would make the farming interesting, but I really shy away from it because what we’ll see is a whole lot of balancing needing to take place as some gotchis become overpowered and others underpowered in terms of getting money directly quicker than others. This seems similar to the reason they nerfed energy as a speed metric - everyone would simply pump the speed. Same would happen with “alchemica gathering range”. It would be insane not to pump that metric so you could swoop in and get it before anyone else.

The reason this is a problem is because people will have made financial decisions based on farming (i.e. moneymaking) bonuses, affinities, etc, after we’ve already coded them in. Then, once we realize these abilities that they’ve spend xthousand GHST acquiring have been deemed too powerful and we have to change them in the interest of fairness, they will be extremely unhappy.

As you probably know, most games go through a cycle: New characters/power introduced=>powers/characters are OP=>NERFd, but that usually doesn’t really matter because everyone pays the same 40-60bucks for the game. Here, we can assume many people will spend many thousands, and won’t want to suddenly feel rugged due to a 5% re-balancing vote that cuts down on the range of their alchemical gathering radius to be more in line with fair values, meaning the extra 500 GHST they spent over the normal cost has just been lost.

I suppose this could be mitigated by putting out an announcement that the first-wave farming abilities are in ALPHA and market decisions should not be made based on the alchemical gathering bonuses… but the market doesn’t usually listen to sound advice.

This is why I would shy away from “farming specific” abilities.

We’ve seen what happens in places like Axie or Whatever-ball when the game needs to be rebalanced and suddenly everyone drops their toys and goes home. I wouldn’t want an underlying farming mechanic to need to be changed later, and we don’t really have QA testers to make sure what we do put in is balanced. That would have to be done on the fly, which could be dangerous.

I think special abilities and non-farming related powers lend the game to a greater storytelling ethos that can be supported by the P2E game, within.

I want to see ebic battles, gotchis bursting with power and colour, fighting over a big rock of FOMO - not just swooping in and grabbing it faster than anyone else due to an invisible affinity.

[HARDKOR]

I think this is why the radar is the best option for having one single thing we lock in now.

It doesn’t really unbalance anything, but it IS useful and would make it more interesting overall, as now you have some sort of way to gauge where the other players are and decide where you are going next.

• The information on other player locations is already known to the client
• Using the sonar ping mechanic or a refresh speed reduces calculations and can be set up to trigger at times opposite of alch drops or whatever major network activity generating thing is currently a feature at any point in the game development
• we could just have it put dots at the edge of the screen, indicating gotchis in that direction, with larger dots being more gotchis, and the range it is detecting at being determined by the rarity of the eye color
• it could be simplified even more, to simply put an indicator(MOB indicator) in the direction that there are the most other people.
• a compromise might be to have common eyes give you one MOB indicator and then add one more per level, so that the myth eye gotchi has 4 levels of crowd detection.

Carry capacity and ALCH SPEED, are the only two things we really can do as hard coded stats, but noone seems very excited about those, so maybe they belong on pass two, as I’m sure they will be included in the list of wearable abilities.

[Honeymoon]

Hmm… how about the single thing we lock in now is MOB indicator… AND “laser eyes”. That gives all gotchis something, and gives the devs a low-level metric to test detection, affinities, damage, charge time, and pace of combat, giving them something to measure when we hash out specifics of bow & arrow, sword, basketball, etc., later on down the line.

We could stipulate that “eye lasers” are a placeholders and subject to many flavours of variety, as the game progresses through development, thereby shying people away from heavy investment decisions based on eye-shape and color.

The two could play together, making it possible to blast folk coming in from the corners, no matter the rarity of your gotchi. A-la Plants vs Zombies.

We can work out the specifics of the different types of beam/area-of-effect/halo/affinity/alch-speed/burst/element/freeze/burn, etc. that each of these represents later…

For now, in concert with your suggestion that higher rarity eyes get additional tracking pins on the gotchi radar, I would propose that the proto-special-ability (represented herein by beams until specific powers are decided upon) should be of the same strength across all gotchis, however, rare eye shape gotchis shall have a shorter charge period, while rare eye colour gotchis shall have a longer beam duration after charge & release.

Does this please the court?

[HARDKOR]

I like it, but can the eye lasers shoot collateral if they have the collateral eyes or is this straight up like Cyclops from X-men?

Are these beam lasers or pulse lasers?

It might be super fun to have a temporary PVP zone where you drop an alchemica or even just 0.1 alchemica.

We need to get something locked in here like, NOW, because the bible is coming out and we need to have made some progress here or we have self rugged…

[Honeymoon]

I reckon they could shoot whatever we choose, eventually, but we could start with cyclops-style lasers, with the following characteristics (using their own colours) with the stipulation that there will be more interesting powers to come, once we get the basic mechanics in.

We might actually want to do:

Rare Low EYC = longer charge, more powerful burst *
Rare High EYC = shorter charge, longer burst*
*burst/beam DPS should be the same, without wearables/mods
**these powers pre-suppose an aiming mechanic, which would either be target based (hitting tab to cycle between targets) or mouse-based (simply pointing your mouse towards a target).

Rare Low EYS = More Alchemica Pins, less Gotchi Pins(?)*
Rare High EYS = More Gotchi Pins, less Alchemica Pins(?)*
*That’s my oversimplified summary of the options - please change these if they don’t feel right.

That’s as simple as I can put it. Seems this would polarize the EYC & EYS powers to be either gotchi or Alchemica focused, and either speed or power focused, and allow freedom to customise and add effects like freezing bursts, acid clouds, or healing auras in line with @SlickBB’s suggestion of Unique Abilities, in place of lasers, down the line, and treasure affinities and alchemical speeds, or whatever else we want on top of a baseline template, once we’ve got more gameplay elements in.

The reason I’m proposing such a stripped down version (and I assume you are as well) is because it’s very easy to give extra abilities, but it’s very difficult to take them away once people grow accustomed to them.

What are your thoughts?

[Honeymoon]

I also like the trial PVP area, but that could require a new map to be created, however I suppose that’s up to us as DAO members. We could also leave that kind of balancing up to developer discretion.

[HARDKOR]

There’s already an Aarena planned, and the two weeks after playdrop are just channeling and chat and “special events” A day of testing PVP ideas would probably be the biggest user engagement day we ever see, if we have one.

[backside.bz]

im a fan of the exclusive areas for certain eys/eyc.

i dont think it should make a major difference in the baseline of what you can collect in the gotchiverse.

[backside.bz]

its a tough one but i feel like its really important that the advantages of EYC/EYS shouldn’t outweigh Kinship and XP on a longer term.

at a certain point. a big xp & kinship should be more valuable than a newborn with myth eyes imo

[HARDKOR]

This is what the bible chapter 4 tells us, that makes this easy to do now…

*Movement, Road Speed, And Alchemica speed are on the table
*There are not enough weapons to go around, so collateral eyes as ranged weapons will help fill that gap
*Eye color should be vision range that scales up towards the end, with the myth eye color getting an evasion boost on top.
*Eye shape could be any one two of the wearable abilities, with the least useful being for the common. Movement speed is the elite trait and Carry Capacity goes to the common eyes. Luck, Evasion, Road Speed, Alch Speed, and the HP/AP Regen/Capacity are all fine.
*Use the eye color to also determine the affinity, for alch speed.

[backside.bz]

i like the idea to determine the affinity for alch speed not a big fan of the movement speed or carrying capacity being influenced by eyes at all. i feel like it would be cool if it has a deeper connection to something than just a carrying capacity. Therefore i think the alchemica speed and/ or affinity with a certain alchemica fits perfect. it brings along a certain sense of personality for the gotchis. This would only go for EYC then and not for EYS.

For EYS, i dont have any useful idea or suggestions atm.

Above the in game traits i still like the idea of adding some special areas which you can only access with certain EYS/EYC

[HARDKOR]

Alchemica affinity could both affect your movement on alchemica, and your carrying capacity for that type. Maybe a fud affinity makes those weight half as much for you.

Affinities could also affect crafting… we can’t mess with what people are finding, but it could be slightly cheaper for the gotchi to craft with their aligned alchemica. 10% off wouldnt be game breaking, and it would give an actual quantifyable yield, to the myth and rare eyes, because they would be crafting alpha or kek at a small discount.

[backside.bz]

ok i was not 100% aware of what alchemica affinity meant but i thought it was something towards this direction.

I DO like that he can carry a certain alch more but im not sure if this would make things too complicated or not. Because there are more EYC than ALCHEMICA colors. but there should be some more visualisation on that. to see if it would make sense or not

[backside.bz]

@HARDKOR

Some would make sense. but: black and the blue/green ish color would already be a question for me. Not sure if the increase of carrying capacity for certain ALCHEMICA really makes sense seeing the eyes colors.

also thinking about it, i dont feel like it really adds a cool feeling to user experience, especially when he has black eyes and its color does not correspond with the ALCHEMICA it has affinity with.

[HARDKOR]

HMU if you want edit access to the Miro.

Lets each just whip up a proposal and do a call where we present them and the community can decide if any of the ideas are good enough to be the one thing you cannot change.

The Eyes have it

[HARDKOR]

Adding a poll here to see if collateral eyes as a default weapon is worth of being the edge case bonus

• Collateral eyes shoot collateral instead of hearts - effect is equivalent to a common ranged weapon
• Collateral eyes shoot collateral instead of hearts - effect is equivalent to an uncommon ranged weapon
• Collateral eyes shoot collateral instead of hearts but are purely cosmetic
• Myth low eyes should be included in this as well
• Kill this idea with fire

EDIT: Adding the numbers so people can make informed decision

There are less than 5000 ranged weapons and 25000 Gotchis.

There should be less than 2000 Myth eye Gotchis.(need number)

[jarrod]

3 of these options will devalue ranged weapons. I don’t see much of a need for this change. Hearts are really easy to see when they are fired in game.

[Softmachine]

New to checking out the dao, but been reading this thread. Lotta cool ideas that need to be handled prior to any launch in this game. Eys and Eyc need to be figured out soon i hope.

I didnt read much on double myth eyes and how they can effect game play in realm, but i like to know more seeing that eye shape and color will be just as important as traits. I like to see how a 2x myth combination can be different from just 1 high or 1 low myth color or shape with say example a common eye trait.

Seeing that we seem to have more players joining, currently in play drop, more people investing wondering why Eyes have a premium price tag in market, lets make this a reality soon.

[Frenjamin]

A cool implementation for eye color could be a modest adjustment to range of alchemica detection. It kind of would make eye color a stand in for the gotchis “vision” ability. so common eyes can see alch something like 80% as far as myths, uncommons 85%, rare 90%. something not too drastic, yet worth considering when selecting your gotchi