Hello gotchi gang!
While todays dao meeting i understood that we have no clear plan how to win the war against bots.
Discussion about cartridge was about “dumping” and other Ethical stuff.
Thats interesting but the main problem which could ruin the game and our investments is bots.
After luna crash we can clearly See that all threats should be hande with no mercy. Espesially on downtrend. (if Alchemica is our marketing budget to onboard New users. … MB its better to use it when gamers can actually stay to play the game? )
Its Hard to detect bot Quickly. So we can add some time for bot task force/ other methods to do their job.
VE curve model has been added to many protocols and we can discuss how we can use it for our purposes.
Fist idea: taking Alchemica from gotchivers give you “staked Alchemica” wich not transferable but could be used for crafting.
User can sell it only after unstaking period which is enough for detect bot (lets say 5 days).
If user was marked as bot by trusted comunity members he cant use Alchemica in any way.
In a controversial situation user could get it after kyc (for example). But he cant do it next time he marked as bot again
Sorry for bad english
Great thread idea…
After reading your proposal I thought perhaps a ‘bot check’ challenge with a time limit could populate randomly in game… then if a bot fails the challenge the associated wallet is perma booted if it’s a hire Gotchi… the owner is flaged and forced to submit a bot report where it would be easy to determine if it was a hire user committing the fraud…
Yes it could be different methods but time its a key. Becouse Bot cant be sure he will cover expenses.
If he can Cash out soon enough it is alwais possible to get his investments back at least becouse he could be unspotted pretty long
I also thought about this topic. There is a proposal that owners of Gotchi and land can dispose of alchemy immediately after collection (selling and crafting), and renters (without land and their own Gotchi) will have an alchemy lock for 3-5 days (maybe a week) before being able to sell or so on. We understand that bots basically do not have their own resource in the game, they only rent it. But, unfortunately, I am sure that the owners of Gotch use bots as well. I don’t know how to deal with it.
Does anyone know to what extent the bots have an advantage ? Can they see channeled hot spots in real time? Do they know where the alchemica is off screen?
I would suggest that if they have a big advantage over real players that we implement dans first cartridge proposal until we come up with something better.
I think all New alhemica should be non transferable for a week. But it could be used inside gotchivers
Yes, they can see everything.
Players are cheating now, too and getting a 9x view distance, so we know the bots can at least see that far, if not further, and they can use the lands in the wallet, to teleport to where there are hotspots, so it’s kind of brutal.
We should back the idea the devs have, and see what happens. If it works it works, and if we argue amongst ourselves and try other things, and delay, it just continues, so… lets take the solution they have already mostly finished setting up!
Sounds like there are a few double pronged solutions on the way. Dedicated BOT hunters and more stringent onboarding measures. But should we not stop spillage whilst they are being developed?
No, we should just get it going… they can probably have the cartridges out the day the prop passes, and if you think anything will save alch prices when there is a land raffle coming in a week, you ae going to be disappointed Everyone is trying to get liquidity, lets not blame the botters for what is largely us, at this moment. We didn’t stop em during the whole playdop, when alch was FARRR more valuable, so doing it now, when we are the ones dumping to buy tickets, and swoop weak hand wearables, and make moves, is too little, too late.
Take the opportunity to get some cheap, if you need alchemica It’s going to be expensive later, when there is all of a sudden a bunch of land that has no alchemica to build it out, and then the harvester rush comes, immediately after that, and then they slam the lodges in, and the endless decorations, and the other shenannigans.
Yea completely agree, not really worried about alch prices though. But the Bots irk me somewhat. They add zero value to the game and are getting served up a free meal every day. And they are using up valuable dev time. Sooner they are dealt with the better IMO.
Bots are the main threat for the succsess of the game.
We should not start harvesters Rush before we will See bots capitulation
Thats quite ironic but i get bun with no appeal with “confirmed” Bot activity)
I have 90 gotchis and dont gather alhemica obviosly. Just rent gotchis and channeling my parcels
Today Coderdan argue that bots could Cash out by crafting NFT and dump it on bazzar. Thats True and it should be used with combination with cartridge/test period/reputation sistem.
But In the end we need utilization of Alchemica.
Thats why incentive for crafting and using bazzar (burning of GHST and more fees for pixelcraft) instead of selling on dex is a good way to give more value for ecosystem.
The beauty of encouraging someone go through a crafting step, to exit the ecosystem, is that it protects the crafting token from the people who only collect it for money, by making those people burn it instead of sell it. From an owners perspective, we need the stuff to build, so we are less likely to do the crafting. This makes a nice symbiotic relationship, that has some nice balancing elements in it.
What if we tried to introduce more info into the open lending market? What if rather then borrower execution for rentals the approval was needed by the lender and we built a bit of a borrower profile into the UI. This should allow for the lender to better evaluate if the renter is a person or bot.
- List gotchi for rent.
- Borrower expresses interest in rental.
- Rental contract awaits owners/lender approval. Owner reviews borrowers profile.
Borrower profile includes/viewable by owner:
- Authorization with Discord (discord handle)
- Borrowers rental history, similar to the “performance” page on gotchilending.com
- (Optional) - liquidation/ sale history.
U cant punish me if i rent to Bot becouse i cant be sure. But without punishment it will not works
Could spillover collection be re-worked so it could only be collected or accessed when more then 1 aavegotchi is working together?
For example we go back to the larger denomination pieces, but rather then just moving over it to collect, at least two aavegotchis had to come together to pick it up? Maybe like get close and press “e” or perform some type of quest or procedure that required human coordination (through in game chat?) The players involved would split the pick up evenly.
I feel like this keeps with the social ethos and would be a good way for players to get used to working together… I guess this might slowdown game play,
Would it be difficult to implement something like this? Would this be easy to bot?
Here’s a few thoughts:
For a programming solution:
Have a hotspot that is a trap if a certain amount of people are within its radius.
- From notes here it can be assumed bots will see it, and if they’re that autonomous rather than looping macros.
The trap is something like requiring everyone to captcha or sign verification.
- If you don’t within X amount of time (I bet a 1 minute requirement would thrash bots), then you are booted for being AFK and given a yellow flag.
- The idea is that if a person is running multiple gotchis across multiple devices, then it will be difficult for them to set up, or reset up within a short period of time. If someone is running 10 bots and they require signing verification, it’s difficult to do this within 1 minute.
It’s also an important idea to give rewards to those that do sign in quickly. So in a way, not only are you punishing bots, you’re rewarding players. This will give human players an edge, which is also a solution to find a way to reward authentic gameplay.
If a macro is looping, then detecting keystrokes would find exact patterns that humans can’t mimic. Players might not like having their keystrokes recorded though.
- Earlier I mentioned yellow flags, if a wallet receives five of these then it is blacklisted, punishment from here on is dependent upon the developers.
- If a captcha challenge is used, then an account can be blacklisted after 10 fails, but this isn’t a great idea as it could also be caused by a frustrated or visually impaired human.
- I also wonder if a blacklisted account could have their items liquidated or auctioned, or maybe a staking pool that would fund future R&D into cheating detection and enforcement. Although I don’t know the communities’ view on asset seizure. Either you have a bot farmer that does a little extra work to reset up their jig, or you could take away all of their hard work and risk being considered extreme.
- Also multiple account detection would be something new, one account feeding into multiple bot accounts could be detected by comparing other wallets that transacted with it, and the account age. But be careful about false positives, all accounts probably have to deal with the polygon contract in some way, so make sure things like GHST and GLTR smart contracts aren’t ever blacklisted.
Welcome @cokpatt_metaguild !
I like your idea, imho it can be implemented, but how a member could detect another member is a bot?
Also, I like the initial idea of caartriges, it will increase the value of GLTR and also will restrict the access to the gotchiverse, making our metaverse private (and people like and love be a part of private clubs), it raise the value of the project as well as making bots pay to play.
Hey everyone. I am a represEntative from Governor Dao and wanted to share/offer a look into our solution to handle bots and sybil attacks within a project and its moving parts.
Our Proof of Existence product is a non kyc method of bot/sybil proofing whitelists, airdrops, nft launches and even Governance exploits through a more democratic model of voting. This is done by leveraging top level say-tech biometrics to unquestionably deem an individual behind a wallet as provably unique.
It is crucial to understand that your biometrics are instantly converted into a hash on your device. Your biometeic markers are unknown and not shared. No exceptions.
After you verify through Proof of Existence, you will mint a PoE token which proves the identity behind your wallet is unique. The tech is battle tested and has never failed. This ensures that sybil attacks will be eliminated.
The best part is that this tech is open source and free to use for developers to implement into any front end/UI.
Just wanted to share this here as someone from your community pointed out the issues you guys have faced as it relates to sybils/bot problems. This is an awesome project and i am happy to have been given a chance to check it out… i plan on getting my feet wet within the community and project regardless of whether you guys would like to explore what i have brought up for discussion here!
Thanks for taking the time to read everyone! Please feel free to reach out with any questions concerns or interest
@dublinsbanking on telegram+Discord and twitter