The clear winner here seems to be linking estate size to aaltars rather than lodges. I’m going to set up a snapshot vote for this feature change.
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Using altar level for reasonable and humble and lodge for the spacious parcel, makes more sense with how things scale. Simply switching it seems a bit simplistic and misses a lot of major effects of the estate mechanic.
A spacious estate saves 64 to 128 walls per spacious added, and this is huge money, on a scale with what having a lodge would cost. For a humble or reasonable, this number is mopre in line with what leveling the altar extra would cost.
Also, with the altar, you need it and noone ius going to have less than a level 4, so there is literally no cost to entry, and this makes almost all spacious estates never need to do anything at all extra, to enable the estate. Youve gone from cheaper, to free, in that case. On a humble, yes, it IS an expense to level the lodge past 4, as thats all you need for the humble.
I need to run all the numbers to do it right, but I feel there needs to be a competing proposal, where we just fork the estate code, and make it so there is a concurrent version, that only links reasonables and humbles, and uses the altar instead.
This would be Gated Communities, VS Estates
You can tie all the single family homes in the world together, and its still not an Estate… an Estate involves acreage, and forests, and extra space, none of which is h\going on in humbles and reasonables.
Also - it would have been really good to wait until after NortoriusBTC and MikeyJay report in this weekend with their findings on the harvesters and reservoirs and makers, before doing anything with this, as we dont necessarily know what we are even talking about right now, and there is a chance we can combine all of this into a comprehensive solution.
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I feel like this discussion needs to be revisited. It hasn’t been pushed to a coreprop because the idea hasn’t been flushed out enough. I believe the idea was to have 1 altar function as a lodge to connect parcels, but when discussing it during a DAO meeting, Dan made it sound like every parcel connected would need to have a high level altar.
I think the problem with the lodge is that you get very little benefit (at least from what we’ve been told so far) for how much it costs (the level 8 to 9 upgrade alone at current prices is almost $15,000).
coderdan,
Looking for a simple benefit of adding parcels to an estate. Sounds like bundling alchemica across parcels would be quite involved. What about allowing farming installations to be moved to any parcel in the estaate?
This would allow users to create estaates and distribute existing farming installations around without destroying their installations and losing value. I would pay to upgrade to add more spacious parcels to my estate if I can move farming installations around.
I’m running hot on a few spacious parcels, I’ll run out of alchemica to farm. it would be great benefit to move installations to parcels I’ve not started farming or just purchased and added to my estaate.
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Would this include altars? Or just harvesters/reservoirs? I feel like that makes a big difference in terms of costs.
We would need to discuss which installations. I would think:
- harvesters
- reservoirs
- lodge
- maker
That is my initial thoughts.
I’m not sure why ppl think estaates are so “under powered”? How do you arrive at an “expected benefit” calculation of how much “power” an estaate should give you? Based on what? If there’s no value in building a lodge for you, don’t build one.
The original post was talking about the high cost for someone who wants to use a lodge to link a couple of humbles. A level 1 lodge costs 27ghst right now - that’s cheap (only 55ghst for lvl2!). By the time you’ve acquired 6 adjacent parcels and need to spend 1,000ghst on a level 6 lodge - you’re doin OK.
Owning a string of adjacent parcels should be a damn big flex in the gotchiverse, not something every humble owner deserves to have for free imo. I think it’s totally OK that not every humble parcel has a level 9 lodge.
The other benefit of an estaate that was not mentioned is that it allows you to enclose a much larger area of the map to collect a LOT more spill over - this is a significant advantage for relatively little cost (although waalls ain’t cheap! - waiting for someone to propose waalls get cheaper once ppl eventually realise how expensive they are…).
Some of the other suggestions around sharing installations seem to be over complicating things imo - sharing installations across multiple parcels sounds like a nice advantage but what happens when you split off and try to sell a parcel with haarvesters but no aaltar? Or no harvesters but half the alchemica has already been farmed by haarvesters on another parcel? -messy.
Once again, I suggest we keep things as originally planned and let’s wait to see if it’s a disaster before re-inventing mechanics that aren’t even deployed yet.
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I would argue that you don’t actually collect a lot more spillage as you suggested, you only collect the additional spillage that would’ve fallen between your parcels, which probably isn’t going to be a significant amount.
Personally, I think getting the adjacent parcels should be the difficult part of linking parcels, not the extremely high cost of building a lodge. If you want to build a max lodge, you need to ask yourself. Do I want a max lodge or a godlike wearable? I doubt many people will choose the lodge, but I guess we’ll see if we don’t change anything.
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The L9 lodge is FOR the guild with the godlike and myth items. If you have 200k in top wearables, the 15k lodge is a smart play, as it is giving you a huge weekly yield from the assets you already own. Lodges are suposed to be crazy expensive at the high end, because we’re only going to build relatively few of those(3 crests per lodge) You build one if it makes sense, and there are a lot of cases where the 9 makes sense, none of which would ever be soley supported by estates. Estates are not the point of the lodge, they are a side benefit. Guild channeling, and social features, are what truly make lodges great. Estates are a "cherry on top’ feature, not a reason to build, all on their own.
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I guess guild channeling will be the main function for lodges. There is some information about this in chapter 3. I guess we can fully discuss this once we know more because I think there are still a lot of unknowns.
A humble parcel is 8 x 8 gotchis and the distance limit between parcels for estaate building is 8 gotchis.
3 humbles cover an area of 192 sq gotchis.
3 humbles in a row waalled off in an estaate would cover an area of 320 gotchis sq - an increase of 66%.
It would also be 40 gotchis long (compared to the spill over hot zone which is only 60 gotchis in radius) so I do think a lot more spill over collection is possible and - in fact the main benefit of building (especially humble) estaates.
I agree high level lodges are expensive - but not for regular folks looking to join 2-3 parcels here and there. I think you should be paying up if you want to start waalling off chunks of 20 parcels for your own benefit in the gotchiverse - that’s a huge swathe of land you’re taking away from the game essentially - tbf though building waalls around an estaate won’t be cheap.
Also agree that finding parcels for sale next to your current parcel(s) on the market will be a natural barrier and challenge, good luck if the owner finds out you’re looking to acquire their parcel to make an estaate - but that’s fine too, same as the real world.