How do we know this is bots? Have you run the numbers on all tokens or just this one? Someone further up suggested actually the biggest dumping daily is by large asset owner accounts that are “notoriously” known in the space. Why always jumping to the conclusion that its botters or scholars?
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I agree. These data points are essential to making a well informed decision so the right actors can be targeted. Extractive bots have become a major issue in similar games, I’m glad we can address it this early in development. However it can’t come at the expense of players who are grinding it out.
1 + 2 sound interesting, Follow me down this path for a minute…
@coderdan If we can incentivize being part of a Guild as a vetting process to participate as a scholar it will distribute the responsibility between us (the Guilds managers/asset owners) and Pixelcraft to participate in some of the policing, and if there are Guilds operating as bad actors their reputations would be on the line, which may also affect the # of passes allocated to them.
However I know there are large asset owners who wouldn’t particularly enjoy that as they rely on Bazaar rentals to utilize their assets and don’t directly communicate with scholars. Maybe these asset owners get a separate allocation based on the number of assets they own…
Aavegotchi is all about collaboration and co-ordination through gaming while interacting with Defi ecosystems. An incredibly complicating feat. I know we’ll find some middle-ground solution to this.
The combination with with #2 sounds interesting as well…
Would like to know what Guild owners/asset managers think of payment options.
In the incredibly botted world of Runescape, the way they were able to greatly squash the number of bots (over a 20+ year period), was to mint ‘Bonds’ you could purchase by grinding out the in-game gold (GLTR for us). These bonds were tradeable on the Grand exchange, and upon purchase could be stored in your inventory or burned. Upon burning, each bond was good for 3 months of membership for full access to all the game features, quests, mini-games. Lets say asset owners do not need to purchase these, ie. if you own an Aavegotchi or land, (or combination of both) the bonds would not be needed for access.
As a scholar manager/asset lender we would make it clear: you need to stake some Alchemica/GHST to earn GLTR to purchase your bonds to keep the scholar membership going.
Initially, some bonds can be minted with GLTR and distributed amongst the Guilds/ asset owners. Thereafter additional GLTR bonds would be minted by PC when the ecosystem needs them (could be done through sig props/core props).
Otherwise, the guilds can give out the bonds they mint from their own GLTR staking (events, raffles, as prizes).There could be structured around bond giveaways “Collect x amount of Alchemica this month and you get entered into a raffle for a 3 month membership (bond)”
Curious to know what people think of this. It adds another GLTR sink, gives Guilds the power to vet their members, incentivizes scholars to stake more of their Alchemica for membership Bonds. The metrics I gave were only an example, we could adjust them however the community and PC see fit.
Edit: Instead of Bonds we call them game cartridges 
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Two things I didn’t see in this awesome set of well thought out ideas.
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The idea of owners vouching for players, or players needing to buy a pass if no one will vouch for them is great(1 and 2), because that’s EXACTLY what a Scholarship is. Giving someone your lawnmower to go mow lawns is renting. Paying for their access to a mowers association, is sponsorship, and that seems to be the dynamic that works best in this community. Finding social self governance methods is the only way we can remain KYC free, IMHO.
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When we talk about dumping, the glitter staking needs to be taken into account. To stake glitter, one ends up selling half, to stake it. If you don’t have fresh GHST to add, and you want to add your alch every day, you sell some of either, to stake it. This is also constant downward pressure, but it’s also filling the pools, sop it also stabilizes prices.
Can someone with more knowledge of LPs give their take on the reality of the effect of this on token prices?
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@notorious_BTC is someone I’ve admired for a long time in their capacity to keep a level-headed and fair perspective to the issues of this DAO. I don’t think he is assuming anything, as much as he is (probably correctly) inferring from the chart that spillovers being enabled are correlated to a drop in alchemica spot price.
If big asset holders such as mass channelers or stakers were dumping, then the effects of spillover on/off would be moot and untraceable in the chart.
Another thing to consider is whether we are labeling participants as extractors… where they may easily just be selling half their alch into ghst for staking purposes, or maybe even buy something in the bazaar.
Are those people extractors? Whether large and well known wallets or the latest scholar…we may be misinterpreting the intentions behind their sales of alch.
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I know there have been a lot of questions about bots & requests for data / information about them. In web3 where transparency is integral, it’s difficult when some information needs to be held close.
Sharing specifics about the kinds of bots & the strategies implemented to remove them is not in line with best practices for network security, and would just escalate the bot arms race. Hopefully this makes sense.
I’m all for supporting scholars and those who invest into the project. For me, aavegotchi has gone from a trade to an investment to a project and community I care so much about. I really do believe we’re building something truly special and want to do everything I can to help in its success.
The root of the problem is the value extractors who use exploitative tactics (botting) which would be immediately banned with all assets seized in legacy games.
People do sell. Even some of the “notorious” ones. (not sure if that’s coincidental or a call out?). At the end of the day, this is an investment. The real question is who wants to protect the investment for the long term or who is here to exploit, extract, and leave?
Anyways, the point of the chart was simply an observation I made. Spillovers, in their current state, promote a ton of selling pressure. The data as to how much of it is from exploitation is something I don’t have.
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You don’t have a bazaar bot that everyone knows about, or front run your clientele 
Had to have been a coincidence. The extractors are very public with their milking of the community.
I’m not tech savvy enough to build any bots 
Hey frens, here is a proposal I’ve been thinking through that could help solve many issues we’re facing at this early stage.
Appreciate any comments and feedback!
Let’s Make the Gotchiverse the Coolest Club on the Block(chain)
Problem
At present, the Gotchiverse is like a cool club with no bouncer. It has great vibes, but randos keep coming in from the street and taking dumps on the floor (i.e, botting and selling our tokens).
Potential Solution
Many products in their early phases curate who can join them via an invite system. I believe the Gotchiverse could benefit strongly from tightening up to become an invite-only metaverse, accessible to the following types of players:
- Gotchi owners
- REALM owners
- Non-asset owners that have received Gotchiverse Caartridge NFTs
What’s a Gotchiverse Caartridge NFT?
A Gotchiverse Caartridge is a single-transfer NFT that enables its holder to access the Gotchiverse for a limited duration. It can only be transferred once, after which it becomes non-transferable (or soul-bound, as the cool kids are calling it).
How do I get a Gotchiverse Caartridge?
Initial Distribution
Gotchiverse Caartridges could initially be distributed via a retroactive airdrop to players that have demonstrated exemplary commitment to the Gotchiverse ecosystem (a.k.a Patrons). Exactly what “exemplary commitment” means could be interpreted in many ways, but I believe a reasonable and useful interpretation could be those that have:
- Crafted a Golden Tile
- Crafted a Golden Aaltar
As the benefits to these items are both aesthetic (and not yield-driven), crafting them demonstrates one’s willingness to take the long view and bet on the success of the game, rather than seeking to extract yield in the short term.
Running the numbers, this would yield around 15,000 invites*, distributed to around 1500 unique addresses, including both Gotchi asset owners and even some scholars.
*Exact breakdown of points per Tile or Aaltar TBD
Gotchi Owners and REALM Parcel owners could also be included, but doing so would dramatically increase the number of invites, which would counteract the intention of limiting access. I would recommend that these invitations be reserved for a future round of Invite distributions (see below).
After You’ve Received Your Caartridge
If you are a scholar that received a Caartridge, you’re all set to play! Just join the game normally and continue to play as you did before until your Caartridge charge runs out.
For Patrons (those that crafted many Golden Aaltars and Golden Tiles), the fun is just beginning. You now have the opportunity to select which scholars you would like to receive your Caartridge invitations.
Pre-existing Guilds or private players with many scholars could transfer their Caartridges to trusted scholars and allow them to continue playing normally.
However, be careful who you gift them to, as there is a twist…….
The Twist
Caartridges are ERC721s, which means they are NFTs with unique token IDs. That means they can easily be tracked!
They would also be minted with a limited playtime (likely 30-60 days) and after that duration is up, they would need to be recharged or replaced with a new Caartridge.
This leads us to Airdrop Round 2, where things really get interesting.
Round 2
In Round 1, Patrons would each receive a distribution of Caartridge NFTs that they could distribute to scholars.
Round 2 would look at the transaction history of the players who used the Caartridge, to see how well they onboarded into the Gotchiverse ecosystem, especially in regards to crafting.
(Players with fewer than 7 days of history using the Caartridge would not be included in the Round 2 airdrop.)
For each aesthetic NFT crafted by the Caartridge-bearer, the Patron could receive a new Caartridge invitation.*
The Caartridge-bearer would also receive an equal number of charge**, which would allow him/her to continue playing uninterrupted.
*The exact ratio of crafting to invitations would need to be determined.
**Exact amount TBD
This mechanism would incentivize scholars to spend a reasonable proportion of their Alchemica on in-game crafting, and it would also incentivize Patrons to choose their scholars wisely, for fear of wasting their invitations and not earning more in the future.
Why would Patrons want to give out Caartridges?
Many Gotchi owners lend out their Aavegotchis to scholars with whom they have built a relationship, rather than relying on the open market. Generally the revenue splits on these transactions are superior to those found on the open market (which usually require upfront GHST and give 100% to the borrower).
Gifting Caartridges to these scholars would strengthen the bond between Gotchi owner and scholar, ensuring that the Gotchiverse is inhabited by individuals looking to grow and participate actively, rather than joining merely to exploit and move on.
Future Rounds
It is not clear at this point in time how long the Gotchiverse would need to remain exclusive, and how many rounds there would be.
But each Round would follow a similar pattern, possibly adding new Patrons via metrics like Gotchi or REALM ownership, until we all deem it’s time to leave Closed Beta and move towards Public Beta.
So that is the end of this proposal! Very curious to see what the community thinks of this, especially those who run Guilds or manage a lot of scholars.
If you disagree with any portion of the proposal, please focus on the specific area you disagree with, as there are multiple moving parts.
If forum support is strong then we will make a SigProp next week and begin preparing the smart contracts for Caartridges and the UI to help support it. In the meantime, the Gotchiverse remains open to all!
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I have a question in regards to something you suggested. You said if a scholar that crafted a tile receives a cartridge, they would be able to just keep on playing like normal, that’s fine. But does that imply that if an owner of a gotchi DIDN’T craft a tile, they wouldn’t be able to play?
Nope, Gotchi and REALM owners would always be able to access the game. As a REALM owner without a gotchi, you could even rent a gotchi and still be able to join, without the Caartridge.
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Wow…seriously love this idea. 
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So what’s going to be the distribution of this Cartridges during Round 1? By the amount of tiles and golden aaltars?
If that’s the case, some people that crafted a bunch of them will have more, which doesn’t mean that they actually have any scholar or scholar program.
Some Guilds have been expending a lot of time educating their scholars, but maybe they don’t crafted enough like other people that just like limited edition NFTs.
People with just one gotchis also manage a single scholar, I know people that are in this situation and just holding their alchemica for other opportunities (upgrading aaltar in this case), they didn’t see any use to crafting LE NFTs with the small of amount of alchemica that they were producing, so that doesn’t mean they don’t believe in the project, THEY DO, they just had a different strategy, is fair to leave them with no cartridges?
You cannot assume that people who didn’t craft any LE NFTs doesn’t believe in the project.
I like the solution of providing cartridges but I don’t agree with the way of distributing them among crafters of LE installations.
EDIT:
Just read the proposal again and saw that the distribution is by that. Which I completely disagree, this doesn’t prove anything that they are actually helping the game, those that are educating their scholars and teaching the value of the tokens are the real people finding the solution.
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I like that players are given access but already multiple rentals are required per day to fulfill one parcel requirements. Just like a gotchi is rented in 2 or 3 different time intervals in a day (x2-3 users) I mean, invitation rights may be insufficient. In the beginning, many scholars or guilds may require extra invitations for this, how can we solve this? If a calculation has been made about the number of users (I mean the detailed calculation above, contributors, abusers, etc.) I would appreciate it if it could be shared. In addition, some of the people who are entitled to invite will not realize these rights, it is necessary to take into account the losses.
Totally agree that just giving caartridges away by tile/altar crafting could be missing a large group of players.
Distributing invitations to those who have upgraded their Aaltar above a certain level (Level 5 or above) could also be a show of commitment and thus worthy of a caartridge. But in the interest of keeping invitation numbers low, we would have to probably reduce somewhere else (such as a tile only counting for 0.5 of an invitation, for example.)
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Still not the best idea, I have 4 aaltars level 4 and others still low level that I have been upgrading one at the time.
Maybe PC can work directly with Guilds and other poeple interested to determine how many they need to keep their players engaged with the game.
I think Guilds can be a good way of helping the team to control who is playing and reduce the amount of bots in the game.
Many Guilds even already did KYC to their scholars as a part of the verification to be elegible to rent a gotchi, so maybe PC and the Guilds can work together to find a solution and a minimun requirement for rented gotchis to get into the game, keeping to original owners of gotchis the ability to play without a cartridge (holding a gotchi should be enough to prove that you believe in the project), this could help to increase the demand of holding a gotchi too if you don’t want to pass any verification.
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Yes we’ll definitely be reaching out to guilds next week to get a feel for how many scholars they are managing and what the impact of an invite-only system would be for them.
Definitely. As mentioned in the OP, Gotchi owners and REALM owners should be able to join even without a Caartridge. Caartridge is only for players who don’t own any of the native assets.
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If I understand everything correctly with this system, lenders get rekt.
We will rent much less and for shorter periods of time and we have to audition the borrowers. For those who have more than 10 gotchis (10 prompts max per address), we will have to search and pay for additional invitations.
So, much less money earned for more work (managing rentals + channeling is already constraining) and that because borrowers are not seduced enough to reinvest in the game. Also no more renting for channeling for those who own multiple plots and don’t have gotchis.
I understand the problem of value extraction but this doesn’t seem like the right way to solve it.
If we really want to use development resources and delay the roadmap (more functionality → more attractive is the game → more players and investors), a solution might be to lock the spillover payout and fulfill some criteria or quests to unlock it gradually.
My 2 cents
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Why wouldn’t you be able to rent to channel if you have more plots than gotchis?
“A Gotchiverse Caartridge is a single-transfer NFT that enables its holder to access the Gotchiverse for a limited duration. It can only be transferred once, after which it becomes non-transferable (or soul-bound, as the cool kids are calling it).”
-this sounds like an attack on players guild or people who are managing other peoples gotchis/land that DON’T have other peoples assets in their own wallet. so if i manage player 1’s gotchis and land I wont be able to give out cartridges to scholars? Basically sounds like only guilds who have other peoples assets in their wallet will benefit from this.
“For Patrons (those that crafted many Golden Aaltars and Golden Tiles), the fun is just beginning. You now have the opportunity to select which scholars you would like to receive your Caartridge invitations.”
i think if you just allowed people to craft these caartridges with alchemica you would see a lot less dumping and more alch being burned which would drive prices up. there is more supply then demand right now. There really is no incentive for scholars to hold or spend alchemica right now, even if they want to be a laand lord one day they still need to dump the alch for ghst to buy it. I think making cartridges craftable with alch will slow down the dumping and will actually give scholars a reason to spend alch.
what is the point of having a level 4 alter if i have 10 gotchis and 10 parcels of land? Just cause i dont have a level 4 alter doesnt mean i dont believe in the game, i just have no reason to burn my alchemica for no added benefit. Also i dont think it is fair to make a LE edition item that people cant craft anymore the governance token of who can play and who cant play. im sure if you promoted the tiles or alters as such before they expired it would of been a little more fair
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