My concern about trait mappings and why it HAVE TO be changed

This could work. I’m still overall skeptical about gimped speed as a play style.

Another possible solution would be to have combat mode like many mmorpgs. Outside combat, you can use mounts, speed boosts, etc, but once you initiate combat, many talents are unavailable. If we get mounts or boosted move speeds thanks to items, in my mind they ought to function outside of combat only otherwise we’ll again run into the same kiting problem.

With the slow gotchis, this could be something that activates in combat mode. Then your slower speed is more of a pvp mechanic you have to deal with when engaging enemies. Outside combat, everybody moves at the same pace for the sake of world environment quality of life. (as mentioned above)

2 Likes

Yes, each trait has to be a genuine polarity that counters itself. Gluing together orthogonal half-dimensions just creates disappointed users.

Take our friend Winklevoss here: Aavegotchi 8845
Stats are 0 NRG, 103 AGG, 101 SPK, 115BRN, 88 EYS, 97 EYC

Wow! By all accounts this gotchi should be VERY effective in combat, right? Its owner spent a lot of money to push those stats so far out, and they all signify things that primarily matter in battle.

What happens when we put him next to a pretty average gotchi, Mark Zuckerberg, BRS ranking #2725. Aavegotchi 8467
Stats are 101 NRG, 94 AGG, 97 SPK, 80 BRN, 8 EYS, 73 EYC

Uh oh. Are we really saying that this “average-good” stats gotchi is almost as powerful as Winklevoss, except he can run circles around him in combat? In exchange for something Winklevoss can’t use in combat at all?

4 Likes

Excellent example fren and couldn’t agree more. My gut tells me a move speed mechanic is going to be a very difficult stat to balance as it has a much deeper impact that is less easily quantifiable as something like crit % or melee dmg. And once you add in line of sight obstacles like the towers, it’ll be even easier for kiting.

On paper an average stat gotchi with max run speed doesn’t seem like much of a match for Winklevoss. However, the reality is he will just be able to outrun him as he chips away at his opponent’s health with his weak arrows all the while trolling him with little fart cloud emojis.

3 Likes

Changing move speed to run speed fixes a lot of things. All gotchis walk at same pace, but their boosted speed is the variable stat, with stamina as its counter.

2 Likes

HI frens, part two here for your review. (post 1/2)

After several days of immersion into the trait mappings I can say that it is a mammoth task to balance this game and requires the dedicated attention of a multidisciplinary team. Thank you everyone for your contribution on this topic, I apologise if any of my conclusions come off as dismissive of anyone’s concerns. I have tried to put an objective lens on my analysis and I am entirely open to critical discussion of everything below. Also Im not a quant guy so the statistical analysis is probably wrong.
*there are several reference to points already made by others in this forum. Just going to post this up now and if you read something that was your suggestion, I know and I’ll try getting around to crediting/answering you.

Part 2 - How to make sense of the Aavegotchi trait mappings

TLDR: The trait map is good and the curve is our fren. Aavegotchi’s unique curve of traits provides the base for exciting power ratios of abilities. From the perspective of this qualitative analysis there doesn’t appear to be critical imbalances in concept. Remapping abilities from one trait to another does not produce meaningful and holistic balance improvements. Balancing Aavegotchi’s unique statistics requires intensive quantitative analysis and might best be achieved by those working closely with the statistics in the current mapping. There are several assumptions that can be challenged in this conclusion and further research and analysis might invalidate it. There are several areas where attention may be required to ensure all gotchis and all player motivations are covered for in PVP/PVE gameplay.

Executive summary

Goal: Identify what problems might exist in the proposed trait mapping in its current state.

Outcome:

  • Discovered that it is not a fair comparison to measure gotchi trait mapping against classic trinitys
  • Tabled how Aavegotchi trait statistics create there own unique balancing dynamics
  • Identified that quantifying the balance implications requires further statical analysis of Aavegotchi traits
  • Qualitative analysis of two trait combinations determined there are no critical imbalances in principle
    • No Aavegotchi trait combinations appear to be inherently over powered
    • Minor number of Aavegotchi trait combinations might be underpowered
    • There may not be a sufficient variety of play styles to serve all player motivations and behaviours
  • Remapping of general traits does not appear to be warranted from findings at this stage of analysis
  • Voting to remap traits at the current level of understanding might fail to produce a meaningful change in balance dynamics.
  • Changing the traits at this stage may slow down and constrain developers, negatively impacting ability to build balanced trait statistics around the current set of features and deliver the gotchiverse on time.
  • Effort might be better allocated toward researching and enaging with community to understand
    • How inclusive are the trait mappings of all gotchis?
    • How varied are the ability sets to the whole community’s prefered play styles?

Part 2 contents
2.1 Defining outcomes - what makes a trait map good
2.2 Critique - Modeling Aavegotchi trait map against the design principles
2.3 Approach - what to analyse
2.4 Synthesis of trait mappings - strongest pairs
2.5 Findings
2.6 Conclusion

Introduction
It is integral to do a rigorous analysis before jumping into solution-mode and changing anything. Part two of three in this series of papers is about backtesting the design principles proposed in part one. The design principles are derived from a model: and all models are wrong but some are useful. A lot of work from this analysis was left on the cutting room floor. Discovered that Aavegotchi trait mappings are extremely complex and it takes much time and attention just to discover a way to think about the trait dynamics. This report strives to begin an explanation in how they work together.

2.1 Defining outcomes - what makes a trait map good

The point of the first article was to define what it is that makes classic trait maps work. A mental model was made to describe the way classic MMORPG and MOBA trait maps enable players to experience fun and varied game play options within a satisfying balance.

The outcomes defined by these design principles can be used to measure how well balanced the Aavegotchi trait map might be.

The values in the below model are a result of variable inputs and are not to be taken for a ‘holy trinity of absolute values’. The values might be whatever suits the game in mind. What we’re interested is the relationship between value types.

Primary Attributes

Traits that enable confluent game play abilities are bound together within a Primary Attribute. Selecting to increase a Primary Attribute will increase containing traits in equal measure. Selecting for a Primary Attribute comes against the opportunity cost of other Primary Attributes.

Outcome
Balance - Primary Attributes are a core enabler of player desire for and satisfaction with trait balance.

Binary Traits


Traits that are adjacent to one another share a theme of abilities but control these abilities in different directions. A classic trinity can be defined by six binary traits. In the above example two traits live within the ability theme ‘Damage.’ ‘Inflict Damage’ increases damage abilities and is adjacent to ‘Replace damage’ which increases ability to regenerate from damage incurred. Options to optimise for binary traits promotes a variety of game play styles. As an example of damage, the classic high DPS life-steal - a high risk/reward play style that abandons all range and durability to specialise and survive on damage output alone.

Outcome
Variety - Binary traits pairs enable players to optimise for niche specialisations by playing creative hybrids of core trait abilities.

Opposing Context Opportunity Costs


Increasing one trait comes at the opportunity cost of increasing traits furtherest side away from, and in different Primary Attributes to the increased trait. For example, optimising for Mitigate Damage comes at an opportunity cost of popularly desirable opposing traits: ‘Inflict damage’ and ‘attack range.’ However, this is an attractive trade off to the player who likes to play the tank and enjoys to be the big unit on the map that the whole team is relying on.

Outcome
Fun - An interconnected relationship of opportunity costs between all traits allows players to experience satisfaction in their preferred play style, whether that be hyper-specialisation or all-rounded, within the confines of fair game balance. Constraints breed creativity.

When the internal integrity of a trait map is robust: there can be both game balance and player creativity with abilities: fun and variety.

  • Too much divergence from the principles of Primary Attributes and Opposing Context Opportunity Costs will allow players to increase for trait combinations that are imbalanced against other trait combinations. Resulting in broken or over powered play styles.
  • Too little option to optimise for Binary Trait pairs lowers player ability to specialise, customise and take risks on trade offs towards their preferred play style.

2.2 Critique - Modeling Aavegotchi trait map against the design principles

Attempting to understand how good the Aavegotchi trait mapping is might by begin comparing to the above model and identify: How balanced and fun might the game play outcomes be?

Current state Aavegotchi mappings


Source: The Gotchiverse Game Bible: Chapter 2 | by Aavegotchi | Jan, 2022 | Medium

This stage of the analysis primarily focuses on the PVP values of the trait map. Energy, Aggression, Spookiness and Brain Size.

A trinity is a structure of relationships between value types and not exclusive to any absolute value. So while abilities like carrying Capacity, Movement Speed, Handling and Vision Range have not been included in the Part 1 research, they can easily be modelled to reveal how their abilities might interrelate.


Aavegotchis General Trait mappings are not comparable to the model’s stipulated Primary Attribute (Which is fine because we love the curve.) Current state Aavegotchi General Traits behave more like Opposing Context Opportunity Costs.There is not yet an obvious way to apply the design principle of Primary Attributes in the sense of ‘a master trait that binds together confluent game play abilities to balance opportunity costs.’

It follows that it may not be valid to compare Aavegotchi trait mappings to classic trinities and say things like, ‘such-and-such trait combination is always imbalanced in other games, and so it is imbalanced in Aavegotchi too.’

Balance - is the curve the holistic ratio of opportunity costs between core traits in Aavegotchi? As the strength-agility-intelligence trinity is to DoTA ect? Balance might be exclusively determined by the curve (how lucky the Aavegotchi was with the distribution of randomly generated traits) and what ability values developers attribute to traits. Meaning, statistical analysis may be required to settle the balance debate.


Above are a sample of selected trait maps arranged adjacently to look for examples of binary traits: extremities that share a theme of abilities but control these abilities in different directions.

A) Yes, Melee Damage and Health Regeneration are adjacent binary traits - the pair govern the ability to control the attrition of damage.

B) Maybe, Ethereality and Ranged Damage are somewhat adjacent binary traits (Ethereality is more related to damage mitigation than damage attrition) If we say the pair do govern the ability to control the attrition of damage then they do so in redundancy to the above pair A).

C) No, it is difficult to argue that Armour and Attack Speed make a pair of binary traits. Armour is another damage mitigation ability and attack speed controls the rate of attack per second.

Variety - traits that control for damage and durability seem to be highly saturated, maybe even redundantly (several traits effect similar outcomes). Is the carry capacity trait enough to add some variety to the heavily offensive and defensive trait combinations? Can every Aavegotchi trait dynamic be optimised towards a satisfying build?


The system of opportunity costs in Aavegotchi trait mappings is not inherently comparable to the model. Opportunity cost is intrinsic to the choice of direction in a general trait. Every time a player levels they are faced with opportunity cost in what gameplay outcomes they choose to optimise for.

Summary
Analysing Aavegtochi trait mappings through the lens of a trinity based model is not a fair assessment. They are not comparable. In order to produce a complete critique Aavegtochi trait mappings must be scrutinised for their own balancing dynamic.

Below is an attempt to analyse how Aavegotchi trait mappings might interrelate as measured by the model’s design principle outcomes: fun, variety and balance.

2.3 Comparison matrix of Aavegotchi traits

More bell curve

Finding a way to make sense of the Aavegotchi trait map requires some context setting. Load up the curve.

Source: Aavegotchi Stats

Analysis of current trait mappings must take into consideration that Aavegotchi owners have selected for some traits on the extremities of the bell curve >98 and <1. However, the majority of randomly generated traits occur within un/common rarity 10-90.

This means there are relatively few Aavegotchis likely to be fully stacked with PVP traits. But how many PVP stacked gothcis are there?

The case for looking at trait balance through trait pairs


Frequent rare-mythic NRG, AGG, SPK, BRN = 2 @ >540

Source: https://ghst.gg/market

A quick sample of the market by minimum BRS reveals that Aavegtochis with two or more rare-mythic NRG, AGG, SPK, BRN traits do not become frequent until BRS >540

If more than half of gotchis from 540 BRS upwards feature more than two rare-mythic traits, how many gotchis are we talking about?

Answering this would require analysis beyond my capability but we can proxy for total gotchis above 540 BRS. Searching for Aavegotchis with minimum 540BRS at reveals:

Aavegotchis >540 = 1393 gotchis*

https://api.aavegotchi.land/gotchi?desired_traits=x,x,x,x,x,x&brs_min=540

Source: Aavegotchi.land

So of the total 17159 Aavegotchis summoned, only something around ~8% are likely to be blessed with two or more rare-mythic traits (and this includes Eye Color and Eye Shape traits that are not player dynamic balancing concerns)

*edit: @actaeon pointed out that the API doesn’t include wearables and that the leaderboard gives a better view of how many gotchi possess >2 rare-mythic NRG, AGG, SPK, BRN traits. Down to around #3500 on the leader board it is more frequent to see >2’s. 3500 / 17159 gotchis is 20% of gotchis. So perhaps a three-trait analysis can be argued for. However, he ability values should scale on the curve and the variance might increase between strongest, second and third strongest traits as players attribute their three stat points per level. So it might be worth getting some statistical capability to weigh in on this matter
Source: Aavegotchi Rarity Farming Leaderboard

What about dreaded triple threats or even four traits rare-mythic in all four PVP traits? (NRG, AGG, SPK, BRN)


Frequent 3 rare-mythic NRG, AGG, SPK, BRN = 2 @ >560 BRS

Source: ghst.gg/market

Aavegotchis with three rare-mythic NRG, AGG, SPK, BRN traits do not become frequent until BRS >560

BRS >560 = 201 gotchis

https://api.aavegotchi.land/gotchi?desired_traits=x,x,x,x,x,x&brs_min=560

Source: Aavegotchi.land

Thats only ~1% of gotchis likely to have three or more PVP traits.

Assumption 1

If only ~8% of gotchis are on average likely to possess two rare-mythic PVP traits it might be fair to look at strong trait pair combinations to evaluate balance. If any two traits are strong, how do they balance against all other trait combinations?

The case to exclude Eye Shape and Eye Color from analysis
For starters they haven’t entered the conversation until now, but we should probably talk about them.


Source: The Gotchiverse Game Bible: Chapter 2 | by Aavegotchi | Jan, 2022 | Medium

We’re looking for fun, variety and balance in the dynamic trait combinations a player is able to select from and attribute points to with each level. Eye shape and eye color are static values that a player cannot increase or decrease after they have summoned their chosen gotchi from a portal. It doesn’t make sense to include static traits in this analysis.

Further justification

Static shape-specific buffs
Eye Shape traits behave like attributed buffs and not at all like the other five trait pairs of dynamic trade offs between two skills.

Handling verse Vision Range
Vision Range and Handling are slightly different to all other traits in that they don’t only govern ability but arguably define player core quality of life factors. Extremely poor handling or extremely low vision range are undesirable experience outcomes. We might then assume that the values attributed to these variables would occur on a tight range so as not to punish players beyond their threshold of tolerance for poor handling and vision.

Assumption 2

Exclude Eye Shape and Eye Color traits from balance analysis.

We can more rigorously analyse how trait combinations might impact game play outcomes if we make one more set of assumptions: what are the win conditions in the gotchiverse?


At a quick glance it would seem there exist three themes in traits

  1. Defensive traits for farming Alchemica
  2. Defensive traits for tanking damage
  3. Aggressive traits for inflicting damage

Based on these trait themes and the alpha dropped so far, players might be drawn towards the following goals. (speculating on how users may behave in a given application is dubious at best.)

Kill stuff
Killing things is fun and more fun when Alchemica’s involved (and unconfirmed XP: White Paper, 5.5 Mini Games) Aggressive traits will be a key capability for satisfying the gamer’s urge to kill, and Aavegotchis strong in aggressive trait combinations, including damage types, attack speed and movement, may be incentivised to optimise towards killing things.

Farm all the Alchemica
Players are incentivised to collect, defend (and perhaps kill) for Alchemica. Carrying Capacity will be a key capability for winning the Alchemica game and Aavegotchis who’s strongest trait is low Energy may be incentivised to optimise towards farming.

Assumption 3

Win conditions in the gotchiverse are to kill things and collect Alchemica.

BRS up only
Also, maximum health and the sprint stamina mechanic only go in one direction. They wont make the comparison table but will be discussed in analysis.

What classes might emerge?
In a genre breaking game such as Aavegotchi, classes are likely to be a bottom up phenomenon. Classes or gameplay styles might emerge how players respond to the trait dynamics and win conditions that are presented to them. Putting a label on a group of dynamic traits doesnt mean players won’t completely ignore those classes and find their own efficiencies to optimise towards.

Its more significant to measure whether all gotchis have a fun options to optimise for than it is to give people buckets to play in. That said there are some high level patterns in the traits that are obvious to call out: farm, tank and damage per second (DPS).

*‘Kill’ used rather than DPS in this study to keep the language plain and to point to the win condition that damage output builds are supposedly optimising for, killing enemies.

Let’s test how the rarest/strongest trait in a two-rarest-trait combination may establish the win condition that makes sense to optimise for.

2.4 Synthesis of trait mappings - strongest pairs

The way to read the following tables is to compare the ‘rarest trait’ against each ‘second rarest trait’ one at a time and ask:
What what play style might make sense to optimise towards base on only these two traits? The answers (based on opinion) are coded for yellow ‘Farm’, green ‘Tank’ and black ‘Kill’

Carry Capacity
image
Carry Capacity exclusively incentivises farming
A gotchi who’s rarest trait effects high Carrying Capacity is arguably exclusively incentivised to optimise towards farming. Defensive secondary trait combinations extend a players capability to bank that Alchemica. Offensive trait combinations give a player some damage output as deterrence, but at an opportunity cost of any meaningfully reinforcing defensive or offensive traits to make the gotchi a viable killer.

Movement speed

Movement speed equally incentivises killing or surviving depending on the next rarest trait
Movement speed can be argued to extend the effectiveness of offensive secondary traits by either kiting* range or enabling melee range to compress attacks per second. Movement speed led pairs would then optimise towards killing win conditions, whether that kill be incentivised for Alchemica, XP or just for fun, unknown. Equally movement speed can be argued to extend the effectiveness of defensive secondary traits by adding escapability to durability. It is unknown what a fast tank would optimise for: more speed or more durability? Neither directly effect the assumed win conditions of actively killing for and collecting Alchemica.

Finding - It is not clear what the win condition might be for a fast tank. Players might not necessarily maximise kills or Alchemica by running away with a diminished carry capacity.

*Kiting = MMORPG slang for a method of killing enemies from a distance by using range and mobility to win, rather than passive durability traits

Armour

Armour is the wild card
Armour is the only trait that pairs variably with other traits for all win conditions and play styles. That is to say that high armour serves simply to extend the incentive of playing to the secondary trait. Fast gotchis survive escape. Farmers survive to cash in Alchemica. Killers survive their fight. Does this mean armour is balanced? Or a submissive trait that does not incentivise leveling any further? All we can assume is that the incentives of possessing high armour might be highly variable to what game play outcomes the next rarest trait imply. Which is a good outcome for play style variance. More traits could be like armour frankly.

Melee Damage


Melee Damage kill them all
Melee Damage exclusively incentivises offensive proficiency unless Carrying Capacity is next strongest. Your gotchi might be an axe murderer or a squishy farmer who’s better at swinging his pitchfork than shovelling Alchemica. Is Melee Damage a varied enough leading trait when it seems to incentivise almost every other trait towards killing stuff? We assume killing stuff is a win condition so we’ll move on.

Ranged Damage & Attack Speed

Attack speed kill them quick
Attack Speed exclusively incentivises offensive proficiency unless Carrying Capacity is next strongest. Farming second to high attack speed might be the least viable of the selected pairs: no durability or damage to make the attack speed an effective defence to depositing Alchemica.

Ranged Damage same as Melee
Ranged damage also incentivises offensive optimisations of all other traits except carrying capacity. It’s maybe a slightly better primary trait for a secondary farmer as it may be effective to kite at range while returning Alchemica.

Finding - Is having three primary traits that control damage output an imbalance to win condition and game play variety?

Health Regen & Ethereality


Health regen or Ethereality: does it matter?
Whether a gotchi’s rarest trait is high SPK or low SPK: the optimisations are equal across all other secondary traits. Defensive secondaries mutually reinforce a tanky build*. Offensive secondaries add durability to Killers. The only difference is that Health Regen will allow gotchis to sprint for longer due to how sprinting drains health points. Again, it is not clear what win conditions a fast tank can optimise for. This analysis is not concerned with lore however it should be mentioned that SPK was originally described as a wild card trait and it might be disappointing to some spooky gotchi holders that SPK only codes for tank ability.

*technically Ethereality ‘Your Gotchi’s chance to evade damage and reduce wall knockback’ is a more volatile durability trait than armour or health regen - however the outcome is essentially damage-mitigation-over-time like other durability traits. (reducing wall knock backs is a useful mobility perk - and very spooky)

2.5 Findings

Some traits are dominant and some traits are secondary.

Dominant traits - strongest and next strongest traits in a pair that define the win condition to optimise towards:

  • Carry capacity
  • Melee Damage
  • Attack Speed
  • Ranged damage

Submissive traits - strongest traits in a pair that defer to the next strongest trait to define the win condition to optimise towards:

  • The entire SPK trait: Health Regen & Ethereality
  • Movement speed
  • Armour

Not a lot of variety in trait combinations.
All dominant traits are offensive traits, except carrying capacity which we say is the only trait that principally incentivises farming. All submissive traits are defensive traits or movement speed. This might imply that players may have less preference to level defensive traits in the interest of optimising for more active offensive traits or farming.

Role call
image

  • Six farming reinforcing pairs defined by a single dominant farming trait
  • Five defence reinforcing trait pairs
  • Thirteen kill reinforcing pairs from nine submissive type traits and four dominant type traits.

We should define the killer classification a little more to see what it contains. Here are all the selected trait combinations in one view below: Color coded for ‘black’ high DPS builds and green Tanky Killer builds.

The way to read the following tables is to compare each ‘strongest trait’ in the top row against each ‘strongest trait’ down the column and ask:
What play style might make sense to optimise towards based on only these two traits? The answers (based on opinion) are color coded for ‘black’ high DPS builds and ‘green’ Tanky Killer builds.


4 primary traits X 2(low/high curve) X 3 secondary traits =24 combinations in this sample

This highlights the idea that there may only be five viable builds optimised towards killing things. Optimally proficient killers with offensive rarest trait pairings are obviously at a disadvantage in durability. It is encouraging to see that this is a relatively infrequently occuring build.

Tanky killers would be less proficient at damage output, disadvantaged by their next rarest trait being defensive. Tanky killers are also less mobile. In this table of strong pairs - you can only have a Fast Tank or a Tanky Killer. Movement Speed is the opportunity cost to Tanky Killers. This equally applies to Ranged Damage-Tanky Killers - they may not have the mobility to kite effectively and could be conceivably be countered by High DPS gotchis (which we say are an infrequent build.)

Ranged Damage-Movement Speed gotchis are a concern for kiting imbalances. Here Fast Tanks might find their usefulness we were looking for. The stamina mechanic should limit how long a Ranged Damage-Movement Speed gotchi can use sprint to kite before their health goes too low. A Fast Tank (less limited with stamina) should be able to run down a kiting gotchi and smaash it.

Finding - There appears to be a satisfying dynamic between trait ratios to enable developers to balance the combat dynamics for future PVP solutions.
For example, if melee damage scaled on a higher range of values than ranged damage (say melee damage = 2-10 ranged, damage = 1-9 and melee damage is +1 higher than range at every level) then balancing the game within the constraints of the current trait mapping should be feasible.

The most salient quote in the original post that is resonating in these conclusion is this:

Rather than looking to at balancing the strongest but most infrequent trait combinations, it might be more impactful to be looking at the weakest (and most frequent) trait combinations and ensuring there are

  1. viable builds for all gotchis
  2. variable abilities inclusive of all players preferences.

Below are some highlighted builds for strongest pairs that provoke some concerns.


Why tank?
It is not immediately obvious what the incentive may be to optimise purely for defensive trait combinations that only tank damage.

Attack Speed-Carrying Capacity
Is this trait pair combination potentially underserved? What can a farmer optimise for when their strongest trait happens to be Attack Speed?

Redesign the trait mapping?
This study sough to understand whether there was cause to redesign the trait mappings. The conclusion of this part of the study is that there is no observable critical issues with the current trait mappings. After several days of close analysis it is apparent that the nature of Aavegotchi statistics makes it difficult to intuitively comprehend the balance of the trait mappings. There is the concern that raising a vote towards changing the trait mapping at this stage may inhibit the development process in achieving balance.

The proposed trait mappings are a product of the full set of abilities and win conditions being built into the gotchiverse. If more about these are made public then additional analysis may be warranted.

There are the following outstanding questions:

What about hard tanks?
It is not immediately obvious what the incentive may be to optimise purely for defensive trait combinations that tank damage. If a gotchi’s two rarest traits are defensive, what rules of the game might they excel in achieving and further optimising towards?

Balance

  • Balance seems to be viable across the board however, it is not clear what the win condition might be for a fast tank. Players might not necessarily be in an attractive trait pair to optimise for kills nor optimise for farming more Alchemica by running away with a diminished Carry Capacity.

Fun

  • Are Spookiness traits different and interesting enough to warrant attributing points towards? Or is it really much-of-a-muchness where SPK falls between health regen and evasion? As outline above: movement speed does not appear to be congruent with high durability. So how attractive is the stamina/sprint-health-burn mechanic really?

Variety

  • Is having three different traits that dominantly skew trait pairs towards optimising for more damage output too exclusive of all other play style preferences?

There’s a great paper from 2019 that classifies different player motivations and behaviours. They synthesised all the existing literature down to introduce five player motivations:

  • Aesthetic orientation
  • Narrative orientation
  • Goal orientation
  • Social orientation
  • Challenge orientation

“I don’t fit into a single type”: A Trait Model and Scale of Game Playing Preferences, 2019. Tondello et al. available at https://www.gamefulbits.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-A-Trait-Model-and-Scale-of-Game-Playing-Preferences.pdf

Broadly speaking, the Aavegotchi ecosystem has something for everyone of these motivations. Within the current trait mappings its not yet obvious what game mechanics might drive cohesive team play in battles. Social orientation might be a gap in the current play styles available. Some people might like to optimise towards support game play goals. Carry Capacity might be a support capability in guild/team contexts. Depending on how Alchemica collection works.

1/2

10 Likes

Next steps
Edit for clarification: Conceptually balance doesn’t appear to be an issue as much as fun and variety of play style options could be for all players and gotchis. However the DAO discussion has led to many different suggested arrangements of the current trait mappings so below are some thought experiments on these.

A suggestion that collected a lot of support was to nerf the ‘Tanky mage’ by swapping a couple traits around. Binding armour and ranged damage into an opportunity cost. Removing the currently possible Armour-Ranged Damage strongest pair.

Below is the table again this time:
Orange = current Aggression mapping
Blue = current Brain Size mapping
Red = the strong trait pair combinations that a remapping would destroy - including the ‘tanky mage’

Current mappings for Armour and Ranged Damage

Mappings with Armour and Ranged Damage Binded within single trait opportunity cost


Taking their place is a new Attack Speed-Ranged Damage build with high DPS (arguably just as much a pain in the ass as a Tanky Mage) and another Tanky Killer. Doesnt seem like a meaningful balance improvement for the possible development re-work involved. It can be seen that simply swapping traits around the map doesnt do a whole lot for balancing across the board.

Takeaway - Re-arranging the current trait mappings produces less meaningful balance improvements than augmenting the quality of particular traits might

And how frequent is a tanky mage build anyway?


Low curve rarity traits are less frequent than high curve traits. So Armour; being a low curve trait, is less frequent to occur.

Perhaps then (if Armour-Ranged Damage is really an issue), BRN polarities could be reversed to make armour-ranged damage combinations even rarer. Lore too can easily be reversed. eg. high brain think fast attack fast, slow brain think slow, lazy throw.

What about kiting pests? (Ranged Damage-Movement Speed)
A key finding in this study was that Aavegotchi trait mappings on the curve are not that comparable to other game experiences. That said we’ve all felt the sting of kiting from enemys who are built for fast movement and high ranged damage. We can count how many of these threats there are out there (as an example of the kind of statistical analysis this balancing work requires - and is likely already been done at Pixelcraft)

There exist around 2679 rare-low to mythic-low Brain Size gotchis (strong in Ranged Damage)

There exist 3633 Movement Speed rare-high to mythic-high Energy gotchis (Movement Speed)

Not going to dive into a quantitative analysis in this study, but if you do a quick API call for all existing MYTHIC Ranged Damage-Movement Speed gotchis, there are only ~51 in existence.

Aavegtochis with both mythic low BRN and mythic high NRG:

12 @https://api.aavegotchi.land/gotchi?desired_traits=99,x,x,0,x,x

13 @ https://api.aavegotchi.land/gotchi?desired_traits=99,x,x,1,x,x

17 @ https://api.aavegotchi.land/gotchi?desired_traits=98,x,x,1,x,x

9 @ https://api.aavegotchi.land/gotchi?desired_traits=98,x,x,0,x,x

= 51mythic Ranged Damage-Movement Speed

51 mythic Ranged Damage-Movement Speed from the current total of 17159 summoned gotchis. Roughly one in every three hundred gotchis you might come up against in a future PVP match would be nightmare kiters**. Pretty good odds compared to other game experiences where one might humbled by a PVP god every other match.

*only counting mythic movement speed and ranged damage, not including rare combinations, of which there will be more

**not considering player behaviour: not all gotchi holders will play the game, guilds and teams may consolidate hold of Ranged Damage-Movement Speed gotchis.

Point here is that this is the kind of statistical analysis that is required to determine whether trait mappings are good enough. Putting design decisions to a DAO vote without validation by statistical analysis could have random and undesirable outcomes on the development process at Pixelcraft. Assume the curve is our friend here.

Conclusion

edit for clarification So part three - redesign the trait mappings, has so far been somewhat invalidated in the sense that balance is conceptually viable for development.

But I didn’t deny myself a solution-mindset for a whole week just to leave all these minor findings unanswered. I will continue this conversation and search for any minor tweaks that might bring any underserved builds into the fun. Attempt sense check whether all possible play style preferences are included at this level of fidelity - without requesting features that are outside the current scope.

2/2

9 Likes

Wow, thank you for doing all this work, once again!

I guess I’m not understanding how CC/Speed doesn’t still stand out, not as gamebreaking, but just the odd-man-out and likely to produce frustration. Isn’t it a persistent imbalance to introduce traits that aren’t comparable to their supposed trade off and all other traits? Traits have to feel more powerful as you get further out on the curve, despite tradeoffs. For example, we also wouldn’t want mythical high NRG gotchis’ carrying capacity to be so low that they can’t equip items or carry any alchemic. We can’t have players getting that next spirit point and wondering why people would want mythical NRG since it makes gameplay worse. And it’s worse than that, because once you are a CC gotchi, defensive traits are strictly better than offensive ones, unless we want to introduce further complication where low NRG makes attack traits more effective to compensate, so they are REALLY glass cannons. I know balancing can just be done on the backend like this, but I much prefer things to make conceptual sense to a newbie from the beginning.

That first sticky-note chart shows it all. Low NRG completely determines what the gotchi is for, just as if we introduced a damage/reading speed dimension. Whoops, reading speed gotchis are just for reading tasks, folks.

Second, I’m not sure I buy the idea that only having a few OP gotchis at the moment means we don’t have gamebreaking stat design. We should assume there will be more and more gotchis with 3, 4, and 5 mythical traits. With more wearables and more haunts, there will be more of all types, and we should balance things such that it doesn’t matter–particularly for the value proposition of these extreme native BRS gotchis. Otherwise, someone will pull a natural 580+ and be told, "sorry, even though it’s the rarest thing possible in this game, your gotchi is actually only mediocre because it has bad combat stats compared to this other lower BRS gamebreaker. Have fun being a slow, fragile treasure chest!

Anyway, I think we should hear from the team and then continue working on this. Maybe they have great answers to these concerns, or maybe they pushed out their first draft (or tenth! this is hard and I’m no expert) knowing combat isn’t in the beta release anyway and we have time to discuss. Some of the trait remappings seem like improvements regardless.

Edit: I hope I don’t sound negative, or like I’m tearing your work down. Actually, I’m saying I like your original analysis and don’t want to stop thinking along those lines. You rock, fren.

5 Likes

Wow what an epic review of stat distributions and how the triangle plays out. Thank you so much for all the hard work and detailed analysis.

I’ve been giving some thought about different games and for me WoW is my easiest reference point as I sunk more hours that I’d care to admit into playing it back in the day. When I looked at how the devs balanced classes to make them fun and dynamic I realised they offered the choice between survival & damage. Or in another light, PvE vs PvP.

Take the mage for example. You can go full frost wherein you deal less damage, but your chance of survival is much higher as you have freezes, snares, etc. OR you can go full fire which has insanely high DPS (ok there’s also Arcane and hybrids, etc. but we’re simplifying here) but fewer tools for survival.

The talent trees were designed in a way where you’re usually choosing one talent for survival at the expense of one for damage output and vice versa.

And then, based on your talent choices you build your gear around that spec.


Now let’s look at aavegotchi. We have six pairs of stats that have binary effects as you cannot have both High and Low NRG. I’m going to disregard the eyes as those benefits seem to be much smaller in effect overall.

So we’re left with four major pairs.

NRG
AGG
SPK
BRN

I’ve been thinking, is it possible to have these binary conditions? Survival vs damage output?

The short answer is yes.

The longer answer I’ve come to is that we need to have at the very least some basic classes. The challenge we’re currently trying to navigate is the “tanky mage/ranged dps” wherein ranged attackers also have super high armour, making them very difficult to kill.

In WoW, we have armour classifications. The mages are limited to cloth. The archers & rogues have leather and chainmail. And the warriors get the plate armour.

We don’t have that in aavegotchi.

But what we could do is define a player’s “class” based on what they’re holding in their right hand.

I looked over all the hand wearables and feel it would be possible to generalise them into four major categories.

Melee
Ranged weapon
Ranged casting
Healing & support

Where we are now as a game is a rather primitive experience. We don’t yet have targetting, skills, charges, stuns, snares, etc.

That’s fine but we need to ask how we build a fun & balanced experience within those parameters.

Something I’ve been thinking about that feels good is to have your right hand be the primary weapon & class. The left hand serves as a secondary weapon that functions with diminished power.

A few examples:

Main hand: pick axe. Off hand: coconut
He is classed as a melee unit and his stats are adjusted as shown below.
Main attack is swinging the axe. Off attack (right click?) is throwing a heal that is rather weak (think like using bandages in WoW)

Main hand: pick axe. Off hand: pick axe
He is classed as a melee unit.
Main attack is swinging the axe. The off attack could be stacked with the main, as in it doesn’t use the attack speed or timer of the main. So he’s a dual DPS.

Main hand: witchy wand. Off hand: coconut
Class ranged caster.
Stats adjusted to caster.
Main attack is firing magic bolts. Off hand attack is throwing (weak) heals)

And on and on.

There would be some better builds but they would be based on wearable choices and synergies over different stat distributions.

ie a Main hand healer would probably opt for off hand ranged damage over melee


I don’t believe this idea is out of the scope from what’s already being developed and would give a ton of versatility in how players build their characters.

You may be thinking by now, well how then do the stats show up for each class?

I went with the survival vs damage binary choices and tried to keep each class as similar as possible.

The key difference is the melee class is the only one capable of receiving boosted armour.

Based on what I’ve heard about the design thus far, I have the following conclusions:

Ranged weapon, casting, and healing would all function virtually the same. A projectile is thrown- one an arrow, another a magic bolt, and the final a healing bolt. The first two, when hitting an enemy, cause damage. The third, when hitting an ally, heals them.

I believe the game to be a spam clicky time game in the beginning where the aim of a projectile is where the player clicks on the screen. There is no “homing” of projectiles onto targets.

I’ve made some adjustments to the overall stats but tried to keep everything as close to home as possible:

I removed move speed & carry capacity. As stated in posts before, I don’t believe move speed a good stat to tamper with. I feel it will lead to a frustrating play experience for many players.

Carry capacity isn’t enough of a stat to warrant a slot for the base four. Also, it doesn’t have an easily seen binary pair.

This opened the space for two new stats which I selected for crit strike (could be either % or amount or both) and crit reduction.

Energy

I took the NRG stat as a chance to boost damage one way or another. One way is through increased crit and the other increased speed. Some players like to be crit monsters while others prefer steady consistent damage.

High NRG for melee is how fast you can swing while for casters is how fast you can fire bolts.

Aggression

Here we have a binary choice or survival or increased damage.

This is where the biggest divergence happens between the classes. Armour boosting low agg is reserved for the melee. For the casters, they benefit from increased range.

High AGG across the board is increased damage (healing) amounts.

Spookiness

Here we have two survival mechanics. Choose which playstyle you prefer. You either take less damage from crits or dodge more attacks.

Brain

This one I’m not entirely sure about as we don’t yet fully understand stamina, mana (if there is any) and HP regen.

I opted for the choice between HP regen (survival) & bigger pools (increase damage before needing rest)

We also need a way for ranged to again get away from melee. Sprint at the expense of mana/stamina/life would work. Without some move speed variance, a melee surprise attack would become OP.


Closing thoughts:

I know this is a pretty substantial deviation from the original design, but I did my best to make adjustments addressing two major concerns highlighted so far: high armour ranged dps & move speed mechanics.

What I’m proposing is far from perfect, but it is my hope that it at the very least opens further discussion on the possibility for classes, even at the most basic level.

In looking over this suggestion, I can see a number of playstyles that would be really fun. The intention was to make every stat combination a fun and viable build.


I appreciate you reading through to the end and would absolutely love to hear what you think regarding this :pray:t3:

8 Likes

Debuffs are also as important as buffs.
Status conditions are sometimes key to gameplay too.
Like sleep, charmed, poison etc.

1 Like

100% fren. I love crowd control, stuns, charges, etc. however I think those abilities are currently out of reach for the scope of what’s being built.

Wow, I can’t believe I read this whole thread. Some amazing work here gents - thank you for taking such a detailed and in depth look into the game theory of Aavegotchi. I just have a few observations… not necessarily any solutions.

1.) In terms of PVP, speed is king. Think back to any game you’ve ever played where speed is a factor. COD? I only see the pro teams using SMGs. DOTA? You don’t get boots you’re effed. CS? They run around with their knives out. WOW? Use a mount… Any gacha game? Speed, speed, speed. A faster gotchi will be better than any slower gotchi of equivalent stats and that’s just how it is.

And I think this is OK. I like that Speed and Carrying Capacity are trade offs. This means gotchi’s will be more specialized to different tasks. If the best channeling gotchi could also be a phenomenal aarena gotchi it would lower the relative value of all other gotchis. The more we can specialize gotchis to different aspects of the game the more value will be applied to each gotchi. If someone wanted to ‘master’ the entire game they would need multiple gotchis to perform the different tasks.

2.) While I applaud trying to make this balanced, fair, and fun for everyone I think this is the WRONG space to do it. Some of these Gotchis are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars… this is about money. In the aarena we will be playing for other players spirit force which is literally money. I agree that it would be detrimental to the games success if we made one play style completely op but I disagree with ‘all gotchis should have equal chances in pvp.’ Some gotchis will be better than most at pvp and that’s how it should be. I like that BRS doesn’t SEEM to be a massive factor in PVP because that value is already in rarity farming. Now we will get some gotchis that are good at PVP, some that are good at channeling/ hauling, and maybe some that are good at defending against lickuidators, or crafting, or whatever else.

3.) I hope to see the Gotchi’s use cases widely diversified. I feel this will be the best way to have elite gotchi’s while not creating a ‘wealth gap’ so large as it is now.

4.) Just as an afterthought… The Aarena probably won’t be the most popular use case for Aavegotchi. Every laand owner can deploy their own dapps on their Realm. One or two of those dapps will probably emerge on top and have their own balancing/ mechanics. Noone plays Warcraft anymore but tons of people play DOTA.

There are so many factors to consider when building something as ambitious as the Gotchiverse. We are way too early and have way too small of a scope to be proposing changes at this moment in time. The Aavegotchi metaverse is shaping up to be an extremely complex and nuanced environment and I absolutely love following the progress. Every release coderdan and the rest of the crew have done to date has been spot on. I have a lot of trust placed in them (they’ve earned it). Hugely bullish on this project no matter what comes along!

4 Likes

Hi fren and welcome to the discussion. I’d like to share my views on your observations.

  1. The biggest challenge with move speed/carry capacity as a primary stat mod is you effectively are making 50% of all gotchis carriers. No other stat tradeoff has as big of an impact. Also, if we gimp move speed, we are going to create a terrible user experience. You said yourself players are all about speed speed speed. I remember in my wow days doing everything possible to maximise my speed from epic mounts to enchantments to wearables (even had a “mount” set of equipment for those few extra %)

Move speed affects more than just balance in pvp. It affects the world experience as well. Maybe a speed mechanic works in pvp to slow down the powerhouses, but what about outside combat? Do we really want to play a character that crawls across the screen just so we can carry some more alchemica?

  1. I do believe all same BRS gotchis should have equal playability and value. To say some stat combos are just garbage and that’s okay is not a good solution. The way I see it, if you don’t like how your gotchi’s stats are as a playstyle, you should be able to find another player who does want them and can make an even trade (of similar BRS).

Also, with the current design, the intention is to balance all gotchis, so even the top BRS ones are relatively the same power as common ones. While I don’t think godlike 570+ BRS gotchis should be able to one-shot players, they SHOULD have a distinct upper hand. Just like in WoW, a fully decked out top tier arena gear player should be able to destroy a freshly minted max level player.

4 Likes

Principle: no persistently imbalancing hidden BRS-curves.

Let’s look at trait dimensions conceptually. I’ve made it simpler by assuming that for most traits, the low end boosts defense somehow, while the high end boosts offense. The point would remain if we rearranged or replaced any of the DEF and OFF positions with each other. What matters is whether a trait side relates to battle or something else.

FARM <—————>OFF + DEF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF

Imagine a new player (Jimmy) comes in, buys a portal, and rolls the impossible, a perfect 600 natural gotchi:

0
99
99
99
99
99

Jimmy thinks he’s gonna be rich! This is less likely than winning the lottery. Less likely than anything else in this game. Less likely than getting the very best item drop in any other MMORPG or RPG. Wow!

As it happens, Jimmy has a brother named Bimmy, who also buys and opens a portal. He rolls worse than average, getting an even 500 BRS:

50
89
89
89
89
89

But when they go to play these new gotchis, rather than feeling powerful, Jimmy gets absolutely destroyed by his brother Bimmy. After all, his gotchi is nearly as offensively powerful in all the same ways, but it can move way faster! When the brothers go to the market, they find that, indeed, the market is pricing Bimmy’s “worse than average” gotchi higher than the perfect 600.

“B…b…but surely, since being slow erodes the effectiveness of every other one of my traits, I’ll somehow be a god in farming, right?”

Not so fast, Jimmy! Looking in the baazaar, Jimmy notices that there are lots of gotchis which are way more effective at farming. All they need is low NRG and a single mythical defensive stat, like

0
0
50
50
50
50

This 400 BRS gotchi can carry just as much alchemica, and is easier to defend than poor Jimmy’s perfect 600. And both will require defense.

So what is Jimmy left with? Hope that someone wants to take his unluckiest-lucky roll off his hands for collectors value? The obvious meta for any smart buyer would be to buy a cheap low NRG gotchi to be the walking treasure chest, and a good-but-not-godlike battle gotchi with high NRG.

In strong contrast, any perfect 600 gotchi with high NRG is godlike in the way Jimmy first thought his would be.

100
0 or 99
0 or 99
0 or 99
0 or 99
0 or 99

Holy cow, any variation will be an absolute monster! It really is starting to seem like making only one side of NRG relate to battle is a mistake. Jimmy thinks to himself, “Well at least I can allocate my spirit points to raise my guy’s NRG and make him more effective as the warrior he was clearly born to be. By the time it’s over he could get up to 40 NRG or so. Too bad it would hurt my HP and rarity farming rewards to nearly the tune of a godlike wearable…”

Let me modify the original trait concepts to make this point more clearly. Let’s replace another of the combat traits with something else unrelated to combat and farming, “Cuteness” (CUTE), so the concept is:

FARM <—————>OFF + DEF
CUTE <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF
DEF <—————>OFF

See how the problem gets worse? Essentially this splits BRS into fragments, so each gotchi has a Battle Rarity, a Farming Rarity, and a Cuteness Rarity. Any gotchi on the high end of the 1st two traits gets “free” Battle-BRS with no cost in battle, such that many lower overall-BRS gotchis will definitionally be more effective at battle than many higher overall-BRS gotchis. And many equal overall-BRS gotchis will feel like completely different power levels in battle, not just different play styles. Gotchis born for Cuteness and Farming will wonder why they have these basically-meaningless battle stats at all.

Okay, final mapping. Let’s pretend we embrace the Farming vs Fighting dichotomy and make all traits like NRG:

FRM <—————>OFF + DEF
FRM <—————>OFF + DEF
FRM <—————>OFF + DEF
FRM <—————>OFF + DEF
FRM <—————>OFF + DEF
FRM <—————>OFF + DEF

It’s clear from this that matching up unrelated traits along single dimensions leads to a meta-BRS-curve. Players wouldn’t care about rolling lots of extreme numbers (high BRS); rather they would care about rolling as extreme of numbers as possible in the same direction. Almost all gotchis that rolled all high stats would beat almost all all-low stat gotchis in battle, and the all-lows would almost all beat the all-highs in farming. We’d have loads of high BRS who unluckily rolled 3 farm and 3 battle traits, yet are just mediocre at both, because even a 600 BRS gotchi like that only has 300 farm-BRS and 300 battle-BRS.

In brief, a dimension that isn’t really a single dimension will always create persistent imbalance and perverse outcomes like the ones described above.

I have three solutions:

  1. make speed vs CC its own thing separate from the base traits. It isn’t a natural dimension in the first place, so let’s just use something like Encumbrance from other RPGs. Make all gotchis travel slower based on alchemica load, and present players with the choice to keep trying to get away slow and loaded up, or drop their bag (or part of it) to become battle-ready.
  2. make every trait have a battle dichotomy and a farming dichotomy. CC is replaced with something to do with battle on the current map, and we invent farming effect dimensions for all other traits.
  3. make both sides of NRG relate to farming and not battle.

Final thought: I really would like a clear answer to this concern that amounts to more than hoping it isn’t really a problem and patching it later if it is. It’s entirely possible that I’m missing something key, but the more I think about it the more this seems like a very clear conceptual line, i.e. no amount of numerical adjustment will balance this, and each new element added later will be differently complicated by this founding imbalance. I believe we are building into our machine a wrench + a mechanical arm that will jam it all over the place with the effect of much player confusion and pain. Am I thinking clearly, or stuck in a neurotic bubble?

Thanks for reading. :white_heart:

8 Likes

Great analysis. I will say that we spent many weeks trying to come up with +farming stats that weren’t completely OP or not worth being main stats (such as lowering spillover during alchemical channeling or spotting Alchemica better). Perhaps we lack creativity, but we were unable to find any more meaningful stats for this category besides CC, zooming range, handling, etc.

I would support removing movement speed and using encumbrance of Alchemica instead, to limit movement speed. We could also consider removing Carrying Capacity from the main traits and using something else DeFi-RPG related.

9 Likes

Ty ser, you put my mind at ease just talking about it more.

You guys definitely don’t lack creativity, this is just really hard. I’ll see what I come up with, and I hope everyone else will too! It could be that only 1 or 2 dimensions affect farming, although I think the more effects the traits have the better, as long as they are balanced.

Ideas for alchemical/farming trait effects:

  • carrying capacity (the classic)
  • alchemica magnet pull-in range (could split by alchemica to fill out 4 trait-sides [aka 2 whole traits], or in pairs to fill out 2 trait-sides [1 whole trait])
  • movement speed bonus when walking on different alchemica. Could lead to some very cool escape strategies in the grid (of course, this affects battle too, but should be fair as long as it affects both sides of the trait equally, i.e. I’m faster on KEK and FOMO, but slower on ALPHA and FUD, and the effect isn’t too strong).
  • in addition to encumbrance, we could expand on carrying capacity by giving different CCs (or different Encumbrance amounts) to different alchemica based on trait, e.g. low BRN lets you bear more KEK, whereas high BRN lets you hold more ALPHA; high AGG lets you FOMO at unforseen levels, low AGG lets you shrug off more FUD.

As I look at this list, it seems to have a theme of “Alchemical Affinity,” meaning certain gotchis being more effective interacting with certain alchemica. Developing that or another or multiple ones, we could leave some traits open to be filled in with farming powers later as gameplay emerges in the alpha releases.

I’ll keep thinking on this.

1 Like

Oh man @lookinghandsome and I were just talking about potential for more farming traits! We even went as extreme to hypothesize the SPK traits get completely replaced with:

Alche-magnetism << SPK >> Spookenomics

Alche-magnetism is the magnetic ability you mentioned
Spookenomics is the chance you will knock alchemica out of an opponent when you hit them with an attack (think of it as “fear inducement” which has a nice correlation with high SPK).

As a cool example of how this implementation might play out in game. Say you charge into battle with a low SPK magnet berserker and a high SPK alchemica dropping berserker. This pair together is a deadly combination of melee attack and alchemica pull that would be super satisfying to play! One berserker is knocking alchemica all over the place and your other berserker is scooping it all up.

8 Likes

love the direction this chat is going in - I have a few challenges to some minor details - but I sense we’re all striving to see trait maps that are integrative of both farming and pvp abilities, so that more gotchis can experience meaningful play in both farming and pvp without painful opportunity costs

Im pushing to have some thought experiments presentable in Miro for our call

1 Like

There’s a lot of talk about speed, but I think we also need to take into account handling. It would be unrealistic for a gotchi to be super fast, but also take 90 degree turns at top speed.

Generally, the faster one goes, the higher the coefficient of the the turning radius. I think this handling dynamic could be attributed to an attribute, like aggression, or the gotchi will need to slow down to make crazy directional changes.

Just a thought. Not sure if this has already been discussed, but during the last stress test, I noticed how when the speed was increased, the ability of the gotchis to turn remained constant, which realistically shouldn’t be the case, and also, I think the difficulty in manoeuvrability due to speed would make very cool, interesting battle dynamics.

Also, for Alchemica Sink chat, which is a big one, we could make it so that all Gotchis that die in battle have to be resurrected by the Great Portal after death, using some combination of Alchemica, making it imperative that Alchemica be hoarded/mined/summoned and creating an economy around lending, should people suck at battle.

Just another thought.

hey fren, just wondering when reading your post if you had noticed that movement inertia is already affected by eye color in the current trait mappings?

1 Like