Thanks! Something I would like to see in the initial proposal is a detailed plan on how the DAO will profit from the game - be it income generation or otherwise.
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I donât think this needs to be a hard and fast rule. I think the DAO should evaluate what it funds on a cost-benefit basis. I could see developers ask for a small portion of funding for a game that does not directly share revenue back to the DAO but brings value to the overall ecosystem. I could also see the DAO funding a game 100% where the DAO receives 100% of the proceeds.
Thereâs probably a spectrum of possibilities there. At the end of the day it will depend upon the size of the funding ask as well as the tangible and intangible benefits the DAO receives in return.
(Also I just realized that you may have just been speaking about your perspective with regard to this project and not a broader statement-- if so, then 
)
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I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one. I also believe that if the DAO is your major funder, it should have some portion of ownership especially if there is not a actual product beforehand. Engagement is cool and all but if we are spending money it should be with the goal to make money. If you went to any other investor pitching for funding, they would expect nothing less.
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i think that were making a grave mistake by assuming that there needs to be a monetary incentive behind playing the game. the main thing for me getting into aavegotchi was that i can cash out whatever/whenever i want and there is time scarcity in my holdings not to play it to earn an income.
similar to traditional gaming they create avenues for their players to unlock different cosmetic flavors or small boosts in order to gather game revenue and make it up on scale and by the whales that want to unlock everything by having a large player base. the revenue generation shouldnât be so tunneled on that it comes with the expense of a fun casual gaming but rather should come as a result of interest/velocity generated from genuine good gameplay with a mix of progression sprinkled in.
the network of the ecosystem assets bolstered my a whole variety of gaming experiences should be able to generate revenue for the individual experience offerings. not to say we shouldnât mix in revenue generating mechanics but to sacrifice fun by adding blockchain transactions where they can be avoided i think is something we as a community should be careful with.
I donât agree with your idea. Game playability is not the key. The most powerful part of aavegotchi is the integration of all blockchain technologies. So aavegotchi is a financial game built on the value network. Or a financial educational game. If you want playability, I suggest you spend $100 to buy the game on steam. aavegotchi I prefer to call him the first financial metaverse on the value network. Nothing brings a greater sense of authenticity than finance.
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I really appreciate the discussion going on please continue!
Creating a fun game that players actually enjoy, regardless of financial gain, is the primary goal. To look at things at a more meta-level, there are various ways we can look at revenue models.
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Play-to-earn. Itâs completely free to play and players can gather resource to sell on the market for profits. It is easy to profit and requires little to no investment. The big question with this model is where do those resources come from?
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Free play with option to purchase in-game power-ups. This model works well for mobile games. The challenge with a crypto-based game is with rewards that hold real value. If youâre not sinking enough revenue from in-game power-ups, youâre going to have another race to the bottom. You can bet that if there is a free to play version with even a small monetary award, you will attract a ton of extractors who add no value to the ecosystem.
Dookie Dash did a variation of this which went well. The difference here is the key to play generated a ton of transaction fees and there are no in-game rewards for resell. We canât apply the same tactics they used.
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Pay to play. Players have to spend some amount of money to enter the game. They have a chance to win rewards in the game which have real monetary value. Traditional forms of this are game copies (upfront cost), subscription model, and pay per play (like an arcade game).
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Make fun game without any monetary rewards. Make a traditional style game where players can play for free or pay a one-time fee for access. There are no NFT rewards and no monetary gain. Itâs just good olâ fashioned gaming.
The big difference between web3 gaming and traditional gaming is the incorporation of real money. My fear is if we have a free play version with real rewards, weâre just going to have a ton of extractors looking at how much time they need to invest to earn X amount of money. I really, really want to move away from this mindset.
The big question to ask then is how to generate revenue, attract gamers, and make it where players can earn rewards?
I think the solution lies in a combination of economics. We have two game play modes, free and paid, with two revenue generating mechanisms: in-game currency and a dungeon pass.
Free Play
Rent a gotchi (or even spawn a free stock one) and off you go. Descend into the crawler and play away. You can buy in-game currency if you like in order to power up during your run. This generates the most awareness onto the game and a small amount of revenue.
Hardcore Mode
Rent or bring your best gotch. Load up on in-game currency. Pay to descend. Have a killer run, tons of intensity and fun, and hope to make it out with some cool rewards to advance further in the game. Attracts skilled gamers and the most revenue.
The Free play mode serves as a funnel to on-board more people into the ecosystem. The Hardcore mode is a way to gain great rewards and power-ups for the greater gotchiverse (as wearables translate everywhere!) Hardcore mode also drives a ton of demand for better gotchis and gear.
We canât really adopt this model as we already have all the wearables and things in place. So selling cosmetic flavours wouldnât really work for us, unfortunately. We might however have ways to sell / award vanity wearables? What do you think?
I agree with this sentiment fully. The way I see things going down is to minimise blockchain interaction as much as possible. Ideally, we can reduce each play through to as little as one or two transactions. This is what I am thinking:
Player can mint dungeon pass(es). The passes are non-transferrable and stored with the game. This is one initial transaction. Subsequent entries would not require a tx.
Player can buy in-game currency outside of the dungeon. They can buy as much as they want, but are only allowed to enter with a maximum amount. Currency is stored with the game and non-transferrable. This is one transaction.
Player descends into the dungeon and the game deducts their play pass. (no tx)
Player runs through the game, accumulates some rewards and wishes to portal out. They make one tx to exit the dungeon and all awards to transferred to their wallet.
Or, they die and get nothing and no need for a tx.
The goal is to make this as frictionless as possible with minimal blockchain interaction.
How does all of this sound to you?
The web3 network is the value network. You need to spend gas to interact. Personally, the gas spent is more than 30matic, which is real money. If we come to the web3 network only for consumption and no output, why donât we go back to the normal network and use less money to get greater satisfaction?
So decentralized finance is the core of the whole aavegotchi. Using games to experience various DeFi infrastructures is the core. And use certain wisdom and strategy to win in defi and win money.
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Fren, with all due respect, letâs keep the discussion centred around the crawler concept. If you have a game idea for a separate project, please create a different post.
Forgive my rudeness. But your idea is really good. I deleted my stupid idea.
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Loving the idea of the awarding vanity wearables. Players love a good flex. Having dungeon spawning, non BRS wearables would definitely be motivation in itself for players to enter, especially if they were hard to find lower dungeon level wearables. Imagine them posting their finds or just walking around the Gotchiverse with them. Heck we could even post âbountiesâ on really hard to find items to motivate players to go exploring. Have you thought about the possibility of a dungeon leaderboard?
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This is a great idea! People love a good flex!! We could drop cosmetic wearables for world-firsts, fastest clears, and any other major milestone players can achieve.
One thing I would really like to unlock the potential of are badges. Imagine a top gotchi accumulating some world-firsts. Those badges would add a lot of value to their profile.
We could also have an achievement system like most traditional games have today. After you clear X floor, you get 100 alloy. After you kill X enemy 100 times, you get something, and so on. Not all rewards would have to be monetary, either. If you ever played World of Warcraft, you could complete a series of achievements for titles. So your character name would be like Quincy, Master Chef. etc etc.
All of this could be built into a greater leaderboard (maybe on top of @Immaterial 's gotchiboards) where players could see all of the leaderboards, for all games and competitions.
I love where this is going and building rewards that exist outside of only monetary gain are fantastic ways to build value and draw in gamers.
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Yeah i was also thinking about soul bind on equip stuff but i do not know how that would work if they âaccidentallyâ put it on a rented gotchi. Could there be a way to have badges wallet bound and also have them show up on the leaderboards? We could also have a ranking system based on level cleared, monsters slayed or anything else we could think of. I do not know how hard it would be to setup an exp system but that would be another way to have activity and could be tracked by a leaderboard. We could also post weekly leaderboard leaders(?) and milestone achievers on twitter to bring more eyes to the game. For example, âHardkor has just became the first player to reach level 90 in [insert game title]. He was awarded [insert NFT] and the title of [insert title]. Join the Gotchiverse and play [insert game title] to test your mantle and have a chance at fame and gloryâ. Or something along those lines 
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Love this idea. The DAO could create a background or some other vanity reward for eacb DAO funded project once thery reach a certain milestone as like an ultimate reward
I dont like the idea of soulbound as was mentioned because this is a web 3 game. If we do it right we could change some lives if they can get and sell an endgame item
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Soul binding (not being able to sell or trade) does have its drawbacks. I was just looking at a scenerio where the outside market is flooded with these acquired dungeon vanity wearables making it so that players just opt to buy them instead of grinding for them. Which is why i suggested the item bounties we could offer if they really wanted to sell them. You could probably put it on one of your low BRS gotchi making it that much more valuable once you got to sell it. We could also set it up where you could possibly sell them at one of the in-dungeon dealers for in-dungeon currency (mindful of the cap).
We should just turn on cartridges NOW so that all the proposed games and features can leverage them.
Soulbound equipment could be a great idea for sure. I donât know if they would have to behave any differently than current wearables with regards to rentals. I havenât tried, but I donât think you can put your wearables on a rented gotchi. I reckon soulbound would function in the same way.
This could be a really fun mechanic to drive engagement! What if we had seasonal leaderboards as well as a static achievement system?
This is a really great idea 
What if we had a combination of the two? Reserve the soulbound drops for world-firsts and other ultimate flexes? Then have the regular drops as before so players can still get great items and make good money if they are skilled and lucky.
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Is this an impossible protocol upgrade? This would increase asset values greatly.
I would surely rent op gear for special events.
Wearable rentals is such a friction reducer.
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I honestly donât know. I reckon if it were to be implemented it would require a ton of dev work. I say we pin the idea until we have a lot of demand for top-tier wearables & gotchis.
I bet noone here is smart enough to pull it off. Too complex, weâd need some sort of chadcoder.