I do not think my comments warrant being removed from the discussion and I don’t appreciate being told I “have no place here”. My point I would like to get across is that pixelcraft has a plan, they have a great track record for providing content that the DAO loves and we should start by asking what will be done with these parcels rather than immediately assume the devs are going for a cash grab. I am far more excited to see what will be built In D27 and D30 than I am concerned about the devs “authority”. At this stage of the game development I feel the team should be given some latitude to produce a great game without constantly second guessing themselves. Dan has already stated the omission from the litepaper was an honest mistake and I believe him, yet this thread frames it as if some great scandal has occurred
I do not intent to frame this as a scandal. Youre (hopefully) right that Dan has no bad intentions regarding these assets. and yes, “PC Square” and “DAO Square” are exciting. However, excitement and trust are two of the most dangerous things in new projects. Sure we could trust them to not be malicious in the future, but why not create a trustless, decentralized decision making platform like we had intended to do from the beginning?
Thank you, fren, I see that. The discussion is good and necessary, and part of building the DAO we want.
Agree about the dangers of excitement and trust, but at the same time the only reason I’m here is that I genuinely trust the devs. If I want 100% trustless, there are countless projects I could probably make (or lose, ha) a quicker buck on.
Dan mentioned just a few minutes ago in the call that they want to improve communication and create a reliable and easy place to get the most updated info.
The only way you have no place here is if you can’t show respect to others in how you interact with them, that’s up to you fren. You also keep getting angry here regarding your disrespectful comment that the admins decided was rude enough to warrant being flagged and hidden, none of us made that decision and it has no bearing on this discussion. The fact is, this thread is discussing valid points and you coming in here calling the OP butthurt was childish and had no place here. You’re welcome to disagree, simply try not to be disrespectful in order to make your point.
Your point regarding their track record is noted and has been stated several times within this thread. The wholeproblem being discussed here was the DAO was not informed in an official way prior to the auction. There has been not a single mention or accusation or even hinting of the devs pulling a cash grab, we are simply stating an issue with communication based on what the devs themselves said they want to see the DAO doing. They wrote the wiki, not us.
I agree that the team needs freedom to move in order to get things done, but major changes should be put into a proposal and discussed as was stated in the Wiki at this stage of the DAO. If Pixelcraft wasn’t ready for the DAO to be more involved in decisions then we were not ready to move into the OASIS phase of the DAO.
I truly believe the omission from the white paper was a mistake, but it’s mistakes like this that I want to avoid in the future. We are here to act as an organization, that requires open communication and this was not what happened here. Let’s simply try to agree to a standard moving forward.
BTW, this thread was also suggested to be posted by Dan when this topic was brought up in Discord. It’s my hope that Dan fully understands the issue being brought up here and doesn’t take it as an attack on the excellent work he and the team have been doing.
Well it is in our interest that they should let us know about holding D27 for pixelcraft. But in perspective the team has been excellent shipoors, and they deserve some land for their own. Moreover, reserving land helps to push prices of the parcels around them and they have been fair to us to allocate D30 for the DAO as well, so I’m fine 
DAOs cannot and should not vote on everything, and particularly not at this stage. It’s all a nice sounding narrative…and it’s good to have people feeling that extra layer of ownership by having votes on certain things…but In our particularly fast-paced environment … we need leaders with the vision to be taking quick actions.
The team has the most stake in this project and the most knowledge. From what I’ve seen, we only have a couple of people in our community with serious knowledge/skills/and the time to devote proper attention to DAO. That will grow over time I’m sure.
TLDR - Pixelcraft having a sizeable stake (to a reasonable limit) in all areas of the ecosystem is basically a good thing. Far better ROI them having funds/assets than being tied up in a (for now…) extremely capital inefficient DAO, and this is good for all of us holders.
Deeper level : At the end of the day, all the talk of decentralisation and democratisation are just stories/narratives… remember these things are not ‘real’, we have bits of information on a blockchain … the success of the project is, realistically speaking, totally dependant on Pixelcraft. I just see too many people get caught up in abstract ideology instead of focusing on reality and what actually works.
“At the end of the day, all the talk of decentralisation and democratisation are just stories/narratives… remember these things are not ‘real’, we have bits of information on a blockchain”
I dont think I could disagree any more strongly. But you are obviously free to have your opinion thanks for sharing.
I do agree that the DAO shouldn’t vote on every minor decision when it comes to the development of the game so early on or we risky stagnation. However, I do believe it to be appropriate for the DAO to approval the gifting of parcels to PC since it wasn’t mentioned in the lite paper which was a guide/discloser for early investors. My main concern and I imagine that or others would be around insuring the parcels wouldn’t be dumped on the secondary market and would instead be used for growing the community.
Also, I would say we table the discussion of how to best run a DAO for now and focus on the core issue at hand around gifting parcels to PC. The reason being is it very obvious no one in crypto knows the best DAO structure, with each project running a different experiment of what a DAO structure should be, and that’s ok we can adapt and change as we learn from best practices from all these parallel experiments being run.
One solution I think can relieve some anxiety around ownership is to rent the parcels for 1 GHST for a long duration (100 years) to PC, with the owner being the DAO treasury. If I’m not mistaken such a mechanism is already being planned for renting out gotchi’s, why not do something similar here?
I think the proposal has loaded/ leading questions … " allow PC to mint assets freely?" " would prefer to remain in control?" This is a type of way a lawyer would ask a question to influence a specific answer. Not cool. It’s tricky and very misleading to the community!
I absolutely believe in democracy, governance, and decentralization. The devs should make a new proposal for D27/30 in a way that is understanding and fair for everyone.
I’m trying to stay out of this discussion as much as possible but there seems to be some confusion as to how these parcels would be used. They wouldn’t be personal farming spots for the team to dump on the market, instead they’d be a place for Pixelcraft to implement fun experiences - similar to the Paartner Parcels.
Hi frens we are currently preparing a few proposals to the DAO, including this issue. As Moon said above, Pixelcraft is not planning to dump these parcels (tbh we probably won’t even do much farming on them), but they will be testing grounds for new features we want to introduce to the game, as well as a great place to specialty features (a stage for live music, perhaps?).
Anyways, we take nothing for granted and are happy to make a proposal to the DAO to allocate these parcels to Pixelcraft. You can expect this proposal (along with a few others) to be coming out this week.
Strongly worded yes, but i think if you consider the precedent that this vote may be setting, we truly are deciding between those two alternatives. The responses are distilled directly from the litepaper excerpt - " All decisions related to Aavegotchi game mechanics, REALM mechanics, ecosystem spending, and even smart contract upgrades will be voted on by the AavegotchiDAO .”
So it seems we are deciding on whether or not this is even a true statement, which I thought those options conveyed well.
I couldn’t agree more. This needs to be the point that this DAO decides how seriously it wants to take it’s founding words. Or were they mere words to begin with, no sustenance or conviction behind them?
Far too many people are here trying to tell everyone not to take this seriously, this is just a game and we need to let devs take the lead. I disagree with that whole heartedly, we aren’t here simply to talk and wait for a game to release, we are here to be apart of a Decentralized Autonomous Organization tasked with the duty of overseeing a game development studio create a next generation blockchain based investment game.
When people say we don’t need to discuss the true nature and responsibilities of this DAO, here and now, because they don’t think there is enough done they don’t seem to understand how hard it is to undo a decision once it has been made. We cannot wait to be upset at a decision before we decide how to setup our tools for governance, that will be too late and cause far more issues.
Others seem to be afraid to test the authority of the DAO because they fear we don’t have the authority we have been promised. Better to rip this band aide off now and remove the farce of what it is, be honest in why we are here and what our roles really are.
I say we are exactly what Dan has said we are and will be. I say we are a DAO with the authority that Pixelcraft has given us to overseen them and this incredible game. We are in Oasis phase of the DAO, Pixelcraft has made that decision and all the consequences that arise from it.
Let’s start getting our shit together and act like a real group of people involved in running a business, let’s be concise and precise with our wording, let’s work together to be the Organized part of a Decentral Autonomous Organization.
Your post sounds so contentious, but what is the substance of the disagreement?
We agree we’re a developing DAO, right? We agree we want to work in the game’s and community’s best interests, right? We agree that Pixelcraft has to make some decisions, right?
Like a child growing and accepting greater and greater responsibility, we can only do what we are able to do. If we’re saying that we are a functional DAO that can in detail oversee Pixelcraft to deliver the game in January as planned, and there are merely one or two small but important decisions that have to be made today for development to continue–tell me, how do we make those decisions?
Who are the groups? What are the timelines? How do we resolve disagreements? How are members rotated in and out of committees? Whatever you can point to that is functional in the DAO, I’ll celebrate along with you and agree it should perform the task it’s performing. Since the FRENS committee seems to be working smoothly, it would indeed be strange if Pixelcraft unilaterally changed FRENS rates. Since we have started the Wearables Task Force, it would indeed be strange if Pixelcraft unilaterally released wearables without consulting it. But there is no land design committee, or game mechanics committee, or marketing committee, and so on, so if you complain that Pixelcraft is making too many decisions in these arenas, I’ll urge you to start building the DAO structure that will take on those responsibilities.
You want us to bomb a hill, but we haven’t yet ridden our bike without training wheels. You say we need to design the recipe, but we’ve never cooked a meal alone. And it’s not even as easy as those metaphors suggest, since no one has yet done what we’re trying to do.
The land allotment is already being put up for a vote. What are our next steps as a DAO?
Maybe it’s because the community only “wants” and never “does”? I think most DAO’s core teams would be happy if communities began to build what they want instead of “desiring”.
Partially correct.
I believe it is Pixelcraft Studios and AavegotchiDAO should make some decisions together, including we vote to offload some of the game design rights to Pixelcraft?
We need to be more active on this. DAO is hard but we need to face those decisions together.
This seems like quite a big decision. Assuming I have a decent enough understanding of the situation at hand and how it may have a long term effect on our core system. I cant help but think about core principles.
The Integrity of our DAO is important. Therefore the simple minting of assets being freely in the hands of those outside the DAO sounds impractical in the long run.
1st:
I do believe there should be enough freedom for anyone who owns something to do as they please with it. With realistic limitations the scarcity of resources should be correlated directly to production and free market effects, which completely exclude the freedom to mint at will. Especially without the consent of a DAO.
2nd:
If we choose to own a district and they the other, then would it not leave room for us to freely and creatively produce our own economic effects where the rewards simply move in the direction that is more appropriate?
Overall I believe if this is a matter of the DAO having the ultimate say so over such matters…I think that it would benefit us more so to give owners(no matter who they are) the freedom to do what they will absolutely. Where there are natural incentives put in place dependent upon the intentions of whom ever the party that owns an asset may be. In such a case I’d propose we vote on owning both districts initially. Then vote to decide on which one to sell pixel(for free), but with a royalty fee. The fee can be decided upon within the DAO as two options.
Option 1:
min 8-25% royalty
Option 2:
min 2% with an increment of .1% per mint as well as an additional account of all mints set outside the original supply of respective asset applied to each additional mint. As you raise the supply so does the compounding effect of the royalty. Exponentially incentivizing self regulation over time as oppose to enforcement via the Holy All Empowered DAO.
(for exp.) There is max supply of 10 Gotchi’s. Owner decides to mint 3 more.
10 Gotchi + 3 Gothchi = 13 Gotchi
+1 Gotchi = +0.1%
+1 Gotchi = +0.1%
…+0.1%
+1 Gotchi = +0.1%
…+0.1%
…+0.1%
TOTAL of +0.6%
So upon sale of any additional mints, where the fees will be applied appropriately and as along as each account of all sales equal to the amount adjusted for the Total additional percent royalty applied. We should be fine with them minting as much as they want.
(FYI I just got off sea duty and am now participating more since I have the time on shore to be more active now that I can be home more often. Trying my best to keep up with all the new data and developments. I really hope my thoughts are making sense and maybe inspires someone smarter than me to make use of these thoughts in order to move forward at least with a decision slightly compromising but favorable for all.)
Hello, before I start I want to acknowledge that I’m a big fan of Pixelcraft Studios and Dao as they have been doing a great job for aavegotchi and its ecosystem. However, I am not in favor of giving free land inside the Citadel (premium land) for free. I understand they bring lots of value to the aavegotchi and the ecosystem but you can argue that so does everyone to some extent. Do paartner houses bring value to aavegotchi? Yes, they do. Do people who buy land parcels bring value to aavegotchi and gotchiverse? I believe they do also. Does the paartner houses, whales, people who buy land parcels do they get land for free? No, they don’t so why should pixelcraft or Dao get gifted free parcels? Especially if those premium lands inside the Citadel would generate ghst tokens to go back into Play2Earn features. What I don’t mind doing though is reserving parcels in district 27 and district 30 for pixelcraft and Dao at a discounted rate. If they do bring value, they should also know that giving them parcels inside the Citadel as a discounted rate is still very profitable and a very great spot to be in over not getting any land in the Citadel(premium real estate). I also believe that having skin in the game (some costs for land) will make them more capital efficiently in deciding game mechanics and understanding the math more for other parcel owners in the gotchiverse as they will be now be forced to know what land parcel owners are thinking about costs and time structures on building installations, etc. Again, I want to express that I truly love what pixelcraft and Dao have done for aavegotchi and I do hope they get parcels in the Citadel but not for free but at discounted prices. Those prices I’m not sure exactly what they should be. I also don’t know if Paartner houses had to pay for their land but if they did, Pixel Craft and the Dao should pay less than them for their lands.
Sounds quite reasonable to me. I’ve been reading over some of the concerns and am getting caught up little by little on what’s going on. Nothing should be free although there has been much to gain from the services provided thus far. I believe in the principle laid out here. There should be at least some sort of cost. This is how things work in the real world. There tends to be a lack of honor when things come by easily and the quality of ones intentions as well as work shows when there is skin in the game…especially where there needs to be conviction in ones actions. I definitely agree with what you have said brotha.