My preferred option would be, to be able to add an amount of time (between 1s and 23h59m59s) to the reset time:
//Gotchis can only channel every 24 hrs
if (s.lastChanneledDay[_gotchiId] == (block.timestamp - s.channelShift[_gotchiId]) / (60 * 60 * 24)) revert(“AlchemicaFacet: Gotchi can’t channel yet”);
s.lastChanneledDay[_gotchiId] = (block.timestamp - s.channelShift[_gotchiId]) / (60 * 60 * 24);
This way, people could chose their own time of day, when their Gotchis reset. It would also mitigate that big alchemica spike at 00:00 UTC, and enable people to efficiently rent out Gotchis throughout most of the day without having to channel at 00:00 UTC, or pause renting from 00:00 UTC onwards until oneself is ready to channel.
I guess for me the “harm” comes from just that. The “fast tracking” or green light that was given was to do a sigprop to enable the use of GLTR to choose the beginning of your 24 hr window.
The options could be:
1: Choose your own time
2: Choose from one of 4 times (0001, 0600, 1200 or 1800)
3: Leave it like it is currently
Then we could discuss which would be better and why.
Now if you want to do another to revert to the old style, you are free to put one up because i was trying to work within the confines that were given.
Also these are just examples that I have given.
Just to complete the logic to avoid any possibility of a gotchi being able to change their timer to be able to channel again in the same day:
And I believe we would have to restrict s.channelShift to only be settable by a user to be greater than the previous s.channelShift value.
Nice catch with the lequal!
Shouldn’t it be sufficient to restrict the value to the range [0, 86399], independent of previous value?
If you set it to e.g. 16h, you would have to wait 40h until you can channel (on the first day after setting it). True, if you afterwards set it to 0h, you’d be able to channel after just 8h (so two times on the same day), but all you’d do is cash in the extra time you had to wait after first setting it to 16h, so I don’t really see that as a problem. It seems rather fair, or am I missing something?
With your assumptions on how this should work, I don’t think you’re wrong. I only suggested it because my assumption was that setting channel shifting should always be strictly unfavorable. I’m not sure that it’s a good idea for people to be able to “bank” time in this way? But obviously this is just my opinion, and therefore one small vote on how the system should work. A time banking side effect may create undesirable side effects in how people interact with the game imo.
There are currently two serious issues with the game that need resolution:
The midnight rain stresses both the servers and the community.
Alchemica tokens are inflationary & we have no strong sinks for them in place, but pausing distribution would negatively impact scholars and the guilds that have built strong relationships with them.
As an aside, we have problems with bots and PC continues to battle them, so technically, it’s three serious issues.
With all this in mind, I cannot think of any reason why fast-tracking the cooldown window Sig Prop is a bad thing. Allow players the freedom to reset their windows or don’t. Charge for it or don’t. There are ideas for this, a Miro board for it, and we should be able to get the Sig Prop up quickly. It doesn’t need to be complicated or entangled with the other issues.
Originally, I voted in favor of the change to the midnight UTC reset. In hindsight, changing that mechanic was a mistake imo. There are others who also expressed regret about their votes. Revoting now that we see how the change impacted the game seems fairly straight-forward.
The spillover situation is far more complex. There’s good discussion about it in Keeping the status quo of disabled spillover for a while and In-Game Alchemica Sink Suggestions, plus an interesting idea about the upcoming raffle was recently posted: Using Alchemica to Buy Tickets for the Upcoming Raffle
The reality is we are dealing with inflationary tokens and if we don’t get on top of this quickly, the problem will only get worse. Glad to see much good discussion about the spillover situation. It’s a game mechanic problem combined with an economic problem and compounded by wanting to keep it positive for everyone involved…a challenging puzzle to piece together.
With regard to the midnight rain situation, it seems like the spillovers may still be somewhat metered right now? Whatever is currently happening with alchemica distribution, it seems better than it was. However, there were only about half the usual amount of gotchis online for last night’s midnight rain. (Still strongly in favor of getting that Sig Prop out there for a revote!)
Exactly. The original channel sigprop did not identify the midnight rain as a serious server/community strain and we are now all seeing the effects of it first hand. This new sigprop is addressing new problems (server strain and timezone discrimination) with two general solutions. Reset-able channel window or Revert to original cooldown.
As many have already mentioned, this has been a great learning curve for us all as a DAO and perhaps sometimes we try to fix things too soon before actually trying them out. We’re in alpha (both the Gotchiverse and the DAO) and mistakes will happen. Many are realising this and will probably reassess their position (and inherently think more carefully) on the two systems.
Will people actually ever choose option 2 over 1? What is the benefit of limiting a reset to a selection of 4 different times when its not much additional work to make it user selected on a much finer basis? I thought we were trying to be as timezone agnostic as possible with a new solution?
It’s not annoying for everyone. I agree it might not be the best approach but at least it’s the same hassle for everybody to the same extent. Where UTC time zone is favorable to some and unfavorable to others that effectively reduces available rental time. Maybe it may bot be much for 1-2 gotchis but for some investors managing higher numbers it’s a considerable sometimes triple digit loss each day.
I have seen this topic being raised by many folks on a daily basis in Discord. And a sort of “fresh” new discussion on each occurrence. That drained the energy of many. I really appreciate this thread was created.
Here is my overall thoughts on the issue and what I think the MVP should be for the upcoming change if it happens.
Issues (or complaints):
Universal channeling reset time that favors certain folks from certain timezones where they can finish channeling and rent out gotchis immediately without much downtime.
I agree with the inconvenience of channeling like 3,4am in the morning vs 8pm at night
However, this inconvenience is partially (pretty significant potion) due to folks fear the gotchis get channeled if they rent them out (to maximize rental income) and plan to channel after they wake up.
- I strongly believe we should have permissions on gotchis to allow borrows to channel or not, but that’s a separate battle to fight. Nevertheless, for those who wants to channel themselves, with this permission, they can max the rental income and also can channel at their own convenience.
Server overload due to everyone channeling at the same time
My take: this is not an issue of universal reset time (at least at the current moment) as we only have 2k ish users. We need to have our infra to support much large user base. I believe, it is mainly an infra and/or design challenge for normal scaling needs. As team responded, it is better for us to find it out instead of later.
And again, if not for maximizing rental income, folks do not have to channel at 0:00 UTC.
Alchemica spillover concentrated around 0:00 UTC
- Yes, a true concern. More a concern on being having a “ghost town” for the most part of the day than rental income. Rental income can be really good during that time. For lenders, you can improve your incoming but at the cost of inconvenience of channeling time. Retain true players and onboarding new players at different geo locations are impacted by these “void” periods.
Changes needed (as many already discussed):
Customizable reset time with cost (using GLTR)
It should allow user to set any time to reset the cooldown.
It should be per gotchi basis (regardless of wallet) to avoid issues of wallet jumping (Slick mentioned in Discord). And the new reset time will be effective 24+ hours later.
We can still bulk reseting however, the rule of 24 hours minimum between the effective time of new reset time and last channeled time should be respected.
It likely solve almost all the issues/complaints we have. The infra/design change to better scale to handle load in general and spikes in traffic are still needed outside of this. I might have missed something really important.
Cost can be further discussed.
I also hope that we direct folks with questions, concerns, and ideas to this thread instead of repetitively answer on a daily basis in Discord. Really energy draining.
I’ve not posted a Sig Prop before so I’m not sure if this draft needs to go in the Gov’nuhs category first or go here, but this is what the text looks like at this point. It’s also on the Miro board.
Rationale - As the Gotchiverse continues to evolve during alpha testing, we are learning that some aspects of the game need a little adjustment and fine-tuning. Currently, gotchi channeling is set to reset once every 24-hours, with the reset happening at midnight UTC. The unexpected consequences of the universal reset time are stress on both the game servers and the community. The 24-hour window is popular, but now that we see how the change has impacted the game, numerous community members have expressed regret about their vote supporting midnight UTC as the reset and asked for a revote to allow players to pick their own reset times.
Specific issues include:
- excessive server loads up to 30x of normal play at the reset time,
- players in many timezones worldwide missing “gotchi happy hour”
- mediocre spillover for remainder of day resulting in lower player numbers outside “gotchi happy hour”
Numerous options have been discussed on the forums to resolve these issues. (The various discourse thread links will be included in the Sig Prop.) The two options being presented to alleviate stress on both the Gotchiverse servers and the Aavegotchi community are:
Option A - Allow players to set unique window reset time for a small $GLTR fee
- Gotchis channel one time within a 24hr window,
- There is no slippage of channeling time (so players can do channeling when it suits them each day),
- Players can change a gotchi’s reset time by paying 10,000 $GLTR (current value 0.55 GHST),
- The new reset time will be set when the gotchi channels after the fee is paid.
- To prevent abuse, players must wait until the new reset time PLUS 60 hours until they can reset again,
- Devs have confirmed that bulk gotchi resets will be possible to assist players with large numbers of gotchis (The $GLTR reset fee will be paid per gotchi and the time will be reset to when the first gotchi in the batch channels.)
- Added benefit of providing a burn mechanism for $GLTR
Option B - Revert to original 24hr cooldown system as described in the Gotchiverse Bible
- Gotchis channel one time within a 24hr window,
- Channeling time will function like petting so there will be slippage each day,
- Simple solution that will result in global channeling spread throughout the day,
- Original Pixelcraft implementation so codebase likely already available for implementation
This is the “live edited” version on the board. Seems like we are pretty close here, until I zoom out and see that people have been ignoring the “there is a similar topic already”, and have posted several identical topics, with slightly different solutions…
If I understand this correctly this system can be abused every 60 hours right? E.g.
- Day 1 - Channel at 0000 UTC
- Day 1 - Reset my channel time to 0100 UTC
- Day 1 - Channel at 0100 UTC (0 hours elapsed since reset)
- Day 2 - Channel at 0100 UTC (24 hours elapsed since reset)
- Day 3 - Channel at 0100 UTC (48 hours elapsed since reset)
- Day 3 - 1300 UTC (60 hours elapsed since reset) I reset my channel time to 1400 UTC
- Day 3 - Channel at 1400 UTC
Thats 5 channels in 3 days right?
What was wrong with just setting a new time and then waiting for that plus 24 hours when you can channel again? e.g.
- Day 1 - Channel at 0000 UTC
- Day 1 - Reset channel time to 0100 UTC
- Day 1 - 0100 UTC arrives but I cannot channel for a further 24 hours
- Day 2 - Channel at 0100 UTC
Or if we go “backwards” in time it looks like this:
- Day 1 - Channel at 0000 UTC
- Day 1 - Reset channel time to 1800 UTC
- Day 1 - 1800 UTC arrives but I cannot channel for a further 24 hours
- Day 2 - Channel at 1800 UTC
I think people should be able to reset as much as they like (because fat fingering is a thing) and as long as you just add a 24hr wait period to whatever they set their resest time to (when their reset time first occurs) it can’t be abused.
Gotchis can still only channel one time every 24 hours. You can’t channel at 0000 UTC and then reset it to 0100 UTC. If you channeled at 0000 UTC but want to reset to 0100, you can wait 25 hours, pay your fee, and then channel at 0100. That resets the time so subsequent channel windows open at 0100 UTC.
We don’t really need the 60 hour thing…that’s just more to code anyway. If the player gets tired of their window time, they can pay to move it forward, but they can’t go backwards.
Ok so as long as its been 24 hours since last channel you can hit the reset button for whenever you like? That makes sense to me now.
Lol so its a 24hr cooldown on the reset?
lol well i guess you didn’t really comprehend what i had written earlier.
Believe it or not i am actually on your side on this one. I started a discussion in March to actually use GLTR to adjust your solo channeling time and was told strangely enough that that would negatively effect the tokenomics if it was implimented . However i have grown to like the 24hr window concept.
I also agree with a lot of ppl that say and was confirmed by the team that the “stress” that the server undergoes from a lot of ppl fomo-ing at reset to channel then rent has actually exposed an actual fault with game itself that was already there. IMO this would have eventually been discovered especially when installations became active because there would have been far more spillage. Just think if UBI “happy hour” had this much impact what would it have been when all those reservoirs started spewing alchemica?
Again i am all for the ability to set your 24hr window but to say “happy hour” somehow “broke” the game is kind of misleading when in fact it only exposed a fault that was pre-existing. Hopefully this gets fixed before installations are released or we may be back here again trying to extend claiming windows from 3x a day to 2x a day
Hmm well i guess you missed this part
Yes…that’s correct. The wait is to get to the new time you want for the window. If you’re on the current window but already waiting to channel when you wake up at 0605 UTC (rather than when your window opens at 0000 UTC), there’s no wait…you just pay and reset. However, if you’ve been getting up to channel at 0000 UTC and you want to reset it to 0600 UTC, you’d end up waiting 30 hours from the previous channel.
Gotchi window resets aside, ultimately, a player’s gotchis are tied to their aaltars. If you have a level 4 aaltar with 8 hour channeling, you’re still going to have to space out the gotchis who can channel, and you’re still going to be tied to the slippage of the aaltar’s window.
Hopefully giving the option to reset will help the renters / rentees who are trying to work with resets for various reasons and (most important) space out the midnight rain to help the servers. (Today was much more laggy than yesterday…also had more than twice the gotchis on there picking up spillover.)
I just want to add my two cents. This should be changed ASAP, the current implementation is terrible and unfair. Game performance issues aside, in an attempt to “save” those with many gotchis to channel, we’ve basically punished those in certain time zones or with a less flexible schedule. Unless they own the same number of gotchis and parcels, they are effectively losing in the game, since spillovers and the rental rates are worse after the first few hours of the window.
The worst part is that it was pushed last minute, without proper announcement and without a vote, very far from fair IMO (and yes, I’m aware that the vote passed after and that it was probably discussed in hangouts and what not, but that’s just not the way to push something so big, due process and proper announcements are a must).
As for a solution, personally I never saw the flaws of the original implementation as a big deal, but I’m ok with the GLTR solution as well. The damage is done already, but this should be top priority if we really want a fair game as the current situation makes the gap bigger every day.
It would absolutely be easiest to just to back to the original implementation. Spreading out channeling organically (as the original mechanic did) would solve a lot of problems.
When can we bring this to a Sig Prop? Today? Tomorrow?