Season 3 for Q1 2022

Hey frens,

I come to you today with a proposal to get clarity around Season 3.
I’m sure many of us are still counting our fresh new winnings from the season 2 finale, and what a round it was with the new haunt and the leader board shakeups we’ve seen! So let’s keep that awesome gravy train rolling and ponder how to make the realm launch an even bigger smash-hit than it will already be.

Everyone loves a date to look forward to, and clarity is the biggest stimulant for investor confidence after all. I propose that for Season 3 we try to hold to the soft-goal of having one season per quarter. This will make seasons predictable and reliable as a source of passive income for gotchi holders who went the extra mile to qualify on the respective leader boards. If we follow the standard parameters of 4 snapshots spread across 8 weeks, then kicking off with a bang in January is very much in the cards for our Q1 season.

Depending on the exact drop-date of the REALM gameplay in January, we could aim to have S3 round 1 pay-out be during the launch day for double hype, or we could spread out the timing in such a way that every week of January is a gotchi week.

Preliminary, I suggest we kick off strong on Tuesday, January 11th, holding onto a Tuesday as we have in S2 and keeping some space for everyone to return and recuperate from the holidays.
The parameters for Season 3 would be similar to those of Season 1, with our H2 rookies now all grown up and no longer “rookies”.

I propose we keep to the tried and tested rates as shown in this medium post: Aavegotchi Rarity Farming Season 1 Rewards — FINALIZED! | by Aavegotchi | Medium

70% rarity farming
20% kinship
10% XP

Please also have a look at a sister proposal to this one coming soon, that will discuss any concerns we might collectively have on how we could fund rarity farms in the 4/year cadence without resorting to always printing more haunts and wearables to keep the GHST flowing.

16 Likes

I wholeheartedly endorse this proposal. Considering there are ample RF Rewards leftover from the GBM auctions, there’s no reason to not schedule the next RF Season with S2 having just ended this week.

It would be ideal to set the precedent of having a new Rarity Farming Season on a quarterly basis. This would help to encourage people to diamond-hand their gotchis/wearables rather than what we’ve seen after the last two RF seasons ended – significant dumping as people feel they can re-buy cheaper later. It’s a vicious cycle that we don’t want repeated, so setting a standard that we’ll have one RF Season every quarter is the best remedy for this.

I also see no point in having a Rookie Leaderboard since Haunt 2 gotchis aren’t rookies any longer. Not to mention, there are some deals in the Baazaar right now and people are upgrading (or downgrading) their gotchis with new gear so we will likely see movement on the BRS leaderboard.

Let’s get some input from the DAO forum so we can get the necessary endorsements to launch this as a SigProp. Moar XP & moar RF Rewards for everyone. What’s not to like!?

6 Likes

I’d air on providing less rewards to Kinship and more to XP. With petting bots rampant, the kinship leaderboard is largely useless in my opinion (at least until people are spending it to channel alch).

70% BRS
20% XP
10% Kin

1 Like

If we stay on BRS/Kinship/Xp, i would propose :

80% BRS
10% Kinship
10% XP

I propose to reduce Kinship %, because people use bots and there is huge gap between H1/H2 who can’t be filled by anyway. (alchemica channeling doesn’t reduce kinship)

Regarding BRS, it’s a fair competition and it contribute a lot to the wearables economy.
I think we should increase the number of slots to allow the newcommers earning some ghost by shaping their gotchi.

1 Like

Personally I think that, with the launch of the Gotchiverse, we should be looking for other ways to give rewards. Drop items / GHST / anything in the Gotchiverse. Have much more fun and interactive ways of doing so, rather than the current model, which was good as a first step and could be done, but is not really all that engaging or fun, if we are being honest.

Obviously the High BRS / XP / Kinship gotchis could be rewarded for their investment and stake in the Gotchiverse, but can we do it in a way that’s much more fun/dynamic and randomised to a certain degree ?

4 Likes

Strongly agree on giving the gotchiverse an excellent reward loop, had a good talk on it with Dr Wagmi and Ader in gotchi discord #chat; however I believe this is one of those situations where we can have our cake and eat it too, since we do have two separate reward pools now in the form of realm rewards and rarity farm rewards.

Or, with fewer words: why not both?

2 Likes

Launching RFS3 with a 70-20-10 model would completely eliminate all rewards for prospective engagement. Your proposed kinship/XP model would only reward H1 gotchis (who absolutely deserve to be rewarded btw, don’t get me wrong). RFS2 dedicated 20% of the reward pool to prospective engagement with the native assets (kinship via petting) and the ecosystem as a whole (through XP, voting, showing up to events, etc). We have attracted many new users and are about to see thousands of new users interact with our ecosystem. It’s important at least a small part of the Rarity Farming rewards are made available to these new users in a meaningful and achievable way.

I suggest the following:
60% rarity farming
10% kinship
10% XP
10% Delta XP (increase in XP from a designated snapshot prior to the season to the RF snapshots)
10% NFT asset engagement metric (surface alchemica collected)

We need the whitepaper to have the most comprehensive details possible, but let’s discuss the above examples of rewarding prospective engagement.

10% Delta XP - This rewards ongoing engagement with attending events, voting on sigprops, playing in the aarcade. With no Delta XP option, there is much less incentive for a new user or new gotchi owner to engage. All of our engagement metrics are INCREDIBLE and we need to embrace and nurture that strength by continuing to offer rarity farming season rewards in this fashion. Moreover, the revamped Aambassador program will make this a much healthier competition as Aambassadors will only receive XP airdrops for a single gotchi, not their entire lot. We will see the most impactful Aambassadors at the top of this leaderboard which is super cool as they deserve that recognition.

10% Surface Alchemica Collected- This will reward people for actually playing the game. More deeply, however, it will give specifically incentivize productivity and efficient strategy around gotchi lending. We will see guilds compete for the top spots in this leaderboard with gotchis farming alchemica 24/7. This leaderboard will be a blast to follow and directly rewards the players and communities investing the time and effort into the ecosystem.

In summary, let’s keep 80% of the rewards for BRS and OG kinship/XP gotchis. But let’s continue to use 20% to reward prospective engagement in the project. I am open to all feedback, especially ideas on how else we could objectively measure asset engagement.

  • Dr Wagmi
17 Likes

I am in favour of launching a season 3 as well.

I like this breakdown Dr. Wagmi. I’ve always been a fan of delta boards over rookie boards as they scale indefinitely with the game and they reward players who are most active at the time of each season. It also lets any new player who opens a portal regardless of which haunt to have a fair shot at winning.

Scrapping the rookie kinship and also not having a delta kinship makes sense because as stated above, with all the new petting services, it isn’t really much of a competition.

The alchemica collection board is a great idea :smiley:

Once the realm is more established, I can see reward pools for other metrics like most lickquidator kills, wins in arena, etc.

4 Likes

I fully support rewarding engagement during the season in which the rewards are being doled out, so I like the delta XP idea. Another idea I’ve heard is a rookie-style leaderboard based on gotchi age. So maybe an XP / kinship leaderboard for youngins and newborns.

Delta

I’ve always been a strong opponent of delta leaderboards. They suffer from 3 major issues:

  1. They produce too many ties.
  2. They basically rugpull people who invested in high XP/Kinship Gotchis
  3. If you didn’t invest in it, but obtained high XP/Kinship through work and dedication, your past contributions are devalued.

Kinship

There is no question that the Kinship leaderboard is broken, but it is the only play to earn leaderboard we have (XP is more of a “show up” to earn thing). So instead of decreasing its value even further, we should try to fix it.
Kinship was already the looser of RF S2. A quick reminder, here is how much RF rewards changed from S1 to S2:
BRS : 122% of S1
Veteran Kinship : 71% of S1
Veteran XP : 142% of S1

Kinship rewards went down by almost 30%, while all other reward categories went up!

The Rookie Kinship leaderboard was also one of the best examples, why a delta Kinship leaderboard would not fix things. From rank #19 to rank #228, Gotchis never missed a pet. So we had 209 ties for the majority of the top spots (and that was in the end…in the beginning of RF S2 there were over 300 ties). That amounted to 25% of the GHST rewards of the entire rookie leaderboard that was NOT determined by anything related to kinship (like for example time-shift), but instead by XP. And that is ONLY considering this one tie between the 209 Gotchis that never missed a pet and never drank a potion. Not even considering all the other ties down the leaderboard.

How come? Petting bots can still fail. Mine failed 3 times so far and I cought it because I still check manually. And besides, there are a lot of scalping bots on the baazaar. They have been scalping fat finger mistakes and good deals for months, so they get high BRS items and Gotchis for MUCH lower prices than anyone else. Does that mean there is no point in the BRS leaderboard either?
Just because people use bots, doesn’t mean the leaderboard is useless. Especially because there are already services out there, for everyone who wants to use a petting bot, for simply staking 99 GHST. There are no such offers for BRS scalping bots (yet) :wink:

And lets not forget that some people spent some serious cash on Potions. Lets remember 4 (formerly known as BurgerKing) who spent 13k GHST on Potions in a single day. And that was after S1. I mean it was always doubtful that they would make that kind of money back, but rugpulling the guy (or girl) after just 1 season seems cruel. Besides they are not the only one who invested in Kinship.

Right about now I expect people to reply with something along the lines of “Well, we can’t just make our decisions depending on whatever some chads aped into”. But that is exactly what people use as argument why BRS deserves such high rewards. “If you don’t give BRS the big rewards, it’ll crash the baazaar economy. Bad for Gotchi ecosystem, yada yada”. So what’s true for one reward category / investment should be true for another one as well.

Proposed solution to the Kinship issue
I still believe that the solution to the Kinship leaderboard issue would be to use the “binomial proportion confidence interval” (what we coined Dependability) instead and time-shift as a tie breaker.
We can modify the dependability formula to include kinship gains from potions. This way, we wouldn’t rug pull any potion investors / buyers / users, and at the same time give newly summoned Gotchis the best chance at placement.
During RF S2, the top petted H2 Gotchis made it into the top 800 Dependability on snapshot 1, top 600 on snapshot 2, and top 400 on the last snapshot. There would have been no reason for a separate rookie Kinship leaderboard if we had used Dependability instead. Furthermore, now that H2 are no longer rookies, they would get rekt by all the H1 Gotchis in a traditional overall kinship leaderboard. But if we use dependability instead, we maintain the veteran lead (if they didn’t miss many pets), while also ensuring a good placement for the top H2 petted Gotchis.
And like I said, with a small modification to include boosts from potions, dependability would not rug pull potion investors either. So it really is the best solution in my opinion. Including potion boosts would also ensure that my Gotchi is no longer #1 in Dependability, which makes my proposal sound a whole lot less self serving haha :sweat_smile:
That said, even with dependability, we would still end up with some ties. Instead of once again crosscontaminating leaderboards by leaving XP as the tie-breaker, we should use time-shift as the tie-breaker. I have been arguing this since the very beginning and as the poll shows, it had overwhelming community support.
Time-shift is actually related to kinship, which XP (or BRS) is not. Time-shift would also benefit people with less Gotchis. What do people with many Gotchis do? They sync up their pets, so they can save gas using the pet-all functionality. However, that causes quite a large time-shift for all the Gotchis that were summoned first, as syncing means you essentially have to wait until all your Gotchis can be pet. People with just 1 Gotchi never had the need to wait with their pets to sync up petting. Also important, time-shift is not unfair to large investors, since anyone could choose to simply pet all their Gotchis individually or group them in smaller groups, resulting in slightly higher gas cost but less time-shift from waiting for sync.

XP

The XP and rookie XP leaderboards also suffer from ties, but there it’s not nearly as bad as for (rookie) kinship. Did you know that if you participated in every XP event since Haunt 1, voted on every proposal since Haunt 1, were an aambasador since day 1 and did anything else that gave out XP, you’d reached between 600 and 700 XP, while 500 XP was given out for voting twice on Aaragon?
In my opinion, being less stingy with giving out XP for things would be a better solution than a delta leaderboard. As a community we do want to keep rewarding people who got in early (to show that Gotchis are a good long term investment), but not to the point where they could be almost absent for 9 months and still keep up with a user with 100% engagement. That is ridiculous.

[EDIT:]
Thanks to @kenymccornick for the correction that it was 500 XP for aaragon instead of the 800 that I had thought.

16 Likes

Strongly agree with everything you’ve written here fren, couldn’t have stated it better.

We definitely can take a look at XP rewards if we’re using those as a metric for engagement instead of the kinship everyone suddenly seems to hate because bots exist (as if bots for the other two categories do not?) - when the Aragon vote still outperforms almost an entire year of attending calls, voting in the DAO and playing minigames. And I say that having the Aragon drop lol.

4 Likes

How are we rugpulling or devaluing high XP gotchis when we still have a dedicated 10% of RF rewards for XP and Kinship each? We would simply be adding a Delta XP for prospective engagement. I really like your Dependability proposal, but I do not know how technically hard that would be to implement. If it wasn’t too hard, I would LOVE to see it happen.

2 Likes

This is a nice suggestion I don’t necessarily oppose, with the exception of a surface alchemica category.

Early investors bought gotchis and wearables under the understanding that 40% of sales of gotchis, wearables AND land would go to reward pools. After very successful land auctions, which have created enormous reward pools (larger than any RF season pool so far) we were told none of those funds will go to RF, as “realm sales proceeds should reward realm engagement”. In the same spirit, a szn3 pool that is currently only 1.5mm shouldn’t be in the conversation for rewarding realm activity, which already counts with much larger reward coffers.

I don’t see how the currently much larger realm reward pool couldn’t reward alchemica harvesting metrics or events?

The relatively small pool for szn3 which was made from gotchi and wearable sales- should reward same. Let’s be consistent in the application and segregation of rewards. Over-incentivizing the current flavor of the month shouldn’t be happening at the expense of previously established dynamics like RF.

With all of its failings, RF got us here… for whatever it’s worth. I think it is dangerous to continue to downplay RF and the passive income elements of this economy on the assumption that the market and all participants will be happy to switch to active alchemica collection for their yield, or will have the time for it.

7 Likes

Agree fren.

I retract/refine my previous statement. Having realm based boards is an excellent idea but should pull from relevant sales (land) and not wearables.

5 Likes

What if the remaining 400k were taken from the realm rewards pool? That would push the entire pool to 2M again and leave room for 20% gameplay rewards.

6 Likes

That would mean further wearable sales and AGIP 6 can start funding a season 4 already.

Sustainable RF AND realm rewards into the future :hearts:

5 Likes

I am all for consistent passive income stream so having quaterly RF seasons (they are seasons after all) makes total sense. It is an important feature of this ecosystem. I would just keep the realm rewards separated from the rarity farming, being rewarded for both in their own sphere shouldn’t be a problem and will cater to different types of investors

7 Likes

What a great suggestion. I love the idea of introducing new elements to RF to not only rewards newcomers in a meaningful way, but also to encourage active participation in gameplay.

I like the idea of ‘NFT asset engagement’. Thoughts on daily quests for increased multipliers? Say you have to collect ‘x number of Alchemica per day’ and if you meet the quota your kinship gets a multiplier for that 24hr period? Just an idea

4 Likes

If RF isn’t reworked, we should maintain the rookie kinship leaderboard but fix it in a way h2 can’t compete in h1 kinship.
Why ? because BRS(aging)/XP/Kinship favors OG H1. As everyone noticed, there is no incentive to open portals h1 and h2, news gotchis will be so far behind. If PC didn’t made this controversal decision by not burning kinship during channeling we could make one kinship leaderboard for all.
There is already a notable hierarchy between h1 and h2, if you increase it by diminishing h2 passive income the message is horrible. OG gotchis sit on their hands forever and new/recent gotchis will pray for philippinos renting their assets.
Low passive income-> low resell value-> better spending thousands dollars in Defi farm than a gotchi.
Don’t make the game more elitist and rekt every investors (like portals owner).

3 Likes

I like the idea of a consistent quarterly season but I like the idea of us being able to sustainably fund this into the future through our Treasury. Preferably and eventually being funded with the interest generated from Treasury investments. How much were we thinking would be a reasonable amount if having a Q1 season?

4 Likes