Make Season 2 great for new players

Giving out Xp rewards for various types of community engagement will probably be the most relevant to onboarding new players and should be given out seasonally IMO. Second to that is Kinship but like @coderdan said, there will be other game mechanics around earning kinship as well once Realm is out ( if I heard that right).

With the idea of rarity farming being to increase the rarity of your Gotchi, not only rewards; it also makes sense that there should be an ongoing “running leaderboard” as well as a seasonal one based only on XP and kinship. I personally would like to see where my well taken Gotchi’s are at 5 or 10 years from now.

2 Likes

I like the idea of doing a kinship and XP leaderboard for each season as well as an all-time leaderboard. One thing to consider though if we do the the option of “biggest gainers” that was mentioned, isn’t there a “hate” bonus where people below a certain kinship receive extra kinship per pet? I believe I saw @coderdan mention this somewhere awhile back. If this is the case wouldn’t those people with extremely low kinship going into season 2 have an advantage on becoming most improved since they will earn extra kinship per pet until they reach a certain number?

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Someone who joined at H1 launch, participated in every event and call, got top scores in every mini-game, and voted on every proposal since the H1 launch, has made about half the XP that early adopters got for voting on the two aragon proposals. So almost three months of pure dedication was worth the same as an early adopter showing up once for a vote.
Rectifying this extreme imbalance by using delta scores might seem like a good idea to some, but it really discourages the daily active users who were catching up. All their hard work and dedication would be “reset” by delta leaderboard.

Game devs usually strive towards increasing their daily active users. Those who show up even when there is no Season or Haunt or event going on. Those who engage because of their love to the game. Resetting all their work by using delta leaderboards seems rather counter intuitive.

So dual leaderboards would be preferable over delta ones.

Nerfing only the two gaming categories but not the main one, where the most money is at, seems wrong.

The largest chunk of your GHST would still go to old players who invested heavily early on, which enabled them to get (by farming a lot of frens) or buy the best wearables. So the top BRS players will stay on top. Even if you use deltas in BRS, it wouldn’t matter. They can just give their wearables to H2 Gotchis. So BRS is actually the category where the problem of “new players not being able to catch up” is most pronounced AND it is where the biggest rewards are distributed to.

Personally I think there should be 6 leaderboards:

  1. Relative rarity all-time: Considering ARS, BRS AND relative rarity of equipped wearables.
  2. Relative rarity only H2 and only new wearables: Neither H1 Gotchis, nor wearables minted before H2 are eligible.
  3. XP all-time
  4. XP H2: Only H2 Gotchis are eligible
  5. Dependability all-time
  6. Dependability H2 only

Not all of them should get the same amount of rewards and the tail for the all-time leaderboards could be lower (e.g. only top 1k).

Wait, where is kinship, and what is dependability?

Potions completely rigged Kinship. It should be replaced by how much your Gotchi can depend on you. Think of it like this: How certain can your Gotchi be that you will pet him after 12h? The lower tail of the 95% confidence Intervall to be exact. This can already be calculated by what’s on the subgraph / blockchain. After you claimed your Gotchi, you can have a score-increasing interaction with him, every 12h after the last one. This is called timesInteracted in the subgraph. And the number of opportunities you had to pet him is his age in days times two and then rounded down. AKA how many 12h windows have passed since the Gotchi was claimed (not counting the current (not yet concluded) one). Depending on how many of these interaction opportunities you took, your Gotchi can be more or less certain to be pet. It’s called the binomial proportion confidence interval (Wilson score interval).

You can find a dependability leaderboard here:
https://aavegotchi.pet

It should update every 3 hours (if the data acquisition script doesn’t crash…)

As you can see, younger Gotchis are capable of ranking very high in dependability, if they are pet regularly. For example look at Venus (8806). Her Kinship rank is #960, but her dependability rank is #7. Or Zap (7695), who is only 43 days old, rank #2914 in Kinship, but #101 in dependability. So if new players pet diligently for a few month, just like anyone, they can climb the dependability ranks too. No need to reset it or use deltas. But having one all-time and one H2 exclusive still makes sense to me.

Lastly I’d like to congratulate the owner of Super-Alcoholism Vietnam (1838), who would have been the Kinship rarity farming winner, if there were no potions and the tie-breaker was lastInteracted. Great job! Your Gotchi truly feels the most love from his owner.

9 Likes

I like some of the ideas in here, well thought out. Personally, I don’t like the idea of fragmenting the leaderboard that much. To many boards leads to smaller GHST rewards, which lowers the incentive to play.

Dependability is a cool idea and would crater the kinship potion market. To me, this seems like we would need a separate proposal to add this new metric. I don’t think it’s a good idea to aim for this on season 2… I would be worried about delaying the season to get these new mechanics working, but I do think it is worth proposing. I also think there are other things that would need to be hashed out about this. For example, why not summon a new gotchi shortly before the snapshot and get a max dependability score?

I’m currently in support of @plm’s original proposal (I believe this is what the breakdown would be).

Leaderboards:
1. All-time ARS
2. Season XP (delta from start of season for all gotchis)
3. Season Kinship (delta from start of season for all gotchis)

One all time rarity board
I still don’t see the point of fragmenting this. This is the primary “arena” for the gotchi’s. This is what everyone is working towards. You equip your gotchi with whatever you can afford to increase its ARS. I love how it is currently setup with the 5000 winners and long tail. That provided incentive to try and climb that ladder.

Only seasonal XP
XP is gained by doing things in the community and playing minigames. Hopefully more ways to earn later, but that’s how you grow XP right now. We should focus on season only because then people are required to continue doing things associated with Aavegotchi. Of course people can sacrifice older gotchis to take over that leaderboard. That comes at a cost and if they are willing to pay it then I say that is fine. That sacrifice would raise the rarity of Haaunt 1 gotchis. Also, that player may be giving up a spot on the all-time ARS board. Is this solution perfect? Probably not, but downsides seem limited. Also, as I’ve mentioned before, all-time XP is really already being rewarded with stat points to increase BRS.

Only seasonal kinship
Kinship represent interaction with gotchis. Not a perfect metric (the dependability score could be better), but it is a way to keep new users engaged. Any all-time kinship board is just funneling money to haaunt 1 (pretty close to a ponzi scheme or MLM). A season based kinship board gives news players that opportunity to win some GHST without making to the BRS board, and they have a daily interaction with the platform. Hell, I’ll admit that petting my gotchi is what got me to go on the Baazaar a few times. I have two gotchi’s and one had no gear. After daily interaction with the poor guy I decided to deck him out in a lower end set. Being on the kinship reward leaderboard is likely what got me to participate more in the Baazaar. If we can keep that feeling for new players then I think it would be a huge benefit. And as for all-time kinship, sounds like the reaalm update will provide an incentive for that.

With this structure, the leaderboards are simple and we can keep the top places with relatively high GHST rewards (to many leaderboards means less rewards for anyone in 1st… less incentive to play). We keep the primary ARS leaderboard, and shift the other two leaderboards to focus on paying out the most engaged players (or the players willing to sacrifice their other gotchis). Everyone from Haaunt 1 still gets to play.

6 Likes

XP
I really like the idea of seasonal XP. Rarity farming really did feel like an event, and I was highly incentivized to do things in the community by that sweet, sweet, XP. Learning about the Game, waking up early for community calls, and putting in extra hours on minigames to climb the boards. All these things required me to spend my energy and time. All of this was done for the incentive of having a more OG Gotchi with some higher stats in the future. Xp in the future will be a status symbol of how much “skin in the game” a player has invested.

Earning XP is directly related to rarity as the player accrues XP points over time. I thought @CryptoGotchi’s idea of the dependability mechanic would be interesting to implement over future RF events, perhaps not the upcoming one. But I can even imagine use cases for how you could further gamify RF competition with dependability scores.

x2 @UnfitStone, players who do want to add a kick to their competitiveness for the upcoming rarity farming season may use potions earned through events or bought in marketplace to prepare for RF. For someone who does want to spend the additional capital for this; it might be worth their money and time, but not necessary to compete. In addition, there’s the option of just plain sacrificing a Gotchi but I think that’s sorta cruel. To each his/her own.

For now, earning XP could be given out seasonally to get players to invest more time deeply interacting with the game during RF events; when new features and events can be rolled out. Kinship is given out as a maintenance incentive to keep interacting with the UI daily, and the occasional binge bazaar purchase.

Kinship

For the above reasons, and also with the additional complexity of ARS scores, it may be a good idea to weight GHST RF rewards more towards ARS/BRS/XP rather than kinship. Reason being, there will be more use cases for kinship in the near future I imagine, especially with Reaalm coming out. However I do believe that Kinship should have SOME rewards for players interacting with their Gotchi’s regularly. Maybe we could look at giving out Kinship Baadges in differing ranks during the RF season to incentivize players to keep petting regularly before, during and after RF ends, ie. there could be Kinship milestones to be reached during RF for haunt 1 and haunt 2 Gotchi’s to earn their respective Baadges.

Leaderboard

Leaderboards in this case would be kept simple, a seasonal ARS/BRS/XP board for GHST rewards and an All-time board tracking everything but would only be used for tracking your gotchi over time and giving out respective H1 and H2 milestone Baadges for RF.

There are several important interests that any future season should protect:

  1. Do not devalue old wearables.
    The reason that the appraisers valued the Aastonauts so high is because of their very rare and very valuable wearables. People invested a lot of money in those. They should be considered in one of the future leaderboards.

  2. Give new players a chance to win BIG, even first place.
    To onboard the masses, it is imperative that new players have a chance to win big, even first place in BRS. Since BRS is the most valuable category, points 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive, unless there are two leaderboards. One all-time and one that only considers Gotchis that have not yet participated in previous season and only wearables that were minted after the previous season (otherwise they could just be given to a freshly bought H2 Gotchi, which new players cannot do, because they don’t own any of the old godlike wearables). How many funds are going to which BRS leaderboard (all-time and new) can be decided later.

  3. Do not devalue past time, work, and effort, that dedicated players put in.
    As I said before, it is vital that the people who come back every day, even between seasons, get rewarded for their hard work and love for the game. Using delta leaderboards for XP and Kinship would be a slap in the face to your dedicated player base. Since this is again mutually exclusive with the possibility that new players would be able to win first place in these categories, we need separate leaderboard in these categories (XP and Kinship) as well. All-time leaderboards and leaderboards that only considers what happened after the first Haunt after the last season. I said first Haunt after the last season just in case that there might be multiple Haunts between seasons.

So with 6 leaderboards, all of these important things can be considered! Of course it would be totally up to the DAO or to Pixelcraft how much percent of the funds each leaderboard will receive. Many people here seem to favor all-time BRS + delta XP / Kinship. So those could receive more funds than the 3 counterpart leaderboards. But you do need all 6 and here is why:

Why are there problems with having only all-time BRS + delta XP + delta Kinship leaderboards?
You significantly devalue the work that people put into the game. A Gotchi with a lot of Kinship has worth because he is a good “horse” for next season’s rewards. If you take that away from those Gotchis you devalue them. Why would you want that? Imagine the owner of Burger King Gotchi, who just yesterday chugged Kinship potions that they bought for over 13k GHST! Imagine how they feel if you announce that for S2 Kinship only counts after H2 happened. #Rekt. Aavegotchi is a big happy family and we don’t want to screw people over. Not the new people and not the old people either.

But what about what @coderdan said, that there will be another use case for Kinship?
This is purely my own speculation but I have long been suspecting (and I think he has been hinting at it as well) that you will be able to spend Kinship on something. This would put the Kinship leaders in a pickle. Buy whatever they can buy with their Kinship and loose their placement in the leaderboard, or hold on to their placement (or possibly climb because Gotchis in front of them might sell their Kinship) by not selling their Kinship. Only counting Kinship that that was acquired after H2 would prevent people from having to make that (at least for me) VERY difficult choice. So you might mistakenly think that having just the delta Kinship leaderboard would be a good idea because it prevents people from having to make a difficult choice for themselves. But this is where I would like to bring up the dependability metric again. Dependability is potion independent and based on how many interactions you had with your Gotchi since its birth. So people can spend all their Kinship on whatever it is that you will be able to buy with it, but their dependability score will not decrease! This, in my opinion, is the much better solution to this conundrum. No more Kinship leaderboards but instead 2 dependability leaderboards. One all-time and one only for Gotchis claimed after the new Haunt (independent from which Haunt they belong to). This would not devalue Kinship Potions too much because you could still (presumably) buy stuff with Kinship. It will also increase the value of H1 portals, which for Kinship leaderboards were at a disadvantage, but would now be on equal footing for dependability. Also, dependability is easier to climb for newly claimed Gotchis, even if you only have 1 leaderboard. It is the lower bound of the 95% confidence interval. So in a way it is how certain your Gotchi can be that you’re gonna pet him.

Ok, you got me, This does actually sounds a bit intriguing, tell me more about this “dependability” score.
You can find an implementation that is still work in progress at aavegotchi.pet. I’m working on the perfect scoring for a fair play to win system. Right now, you can already see that there are a lot of younger Gotchis in the Top100 because they never “missed” a pet and only had very little time shift, meaning they pet as soon as possible, twice a day. This is dedication! But since the value is based on the timestamp when the Gotchi was claimed, the score is not constant during the day. Right now, Gotchis still switch ranks for a few hours of the day because they are not born at the same time and with every 12h-since-birth passed, a new interaction opportunity is considered for the score, increasing the n of the formula for different Gotchis at different times. I plan to fix this soon and have it be fair for all. I don’t want that the time of day that the snapshot is taken will randomly favor some Gotchis more than others, simply because they had a “lucky” birth time. Also alexjj made a very good point in Discord about whether or not to consider owner changes for the dependability score. I don’t want to spoil too much of the blog post but the answer is “yes, if”. So stay tuned my fellow Gotchi lovers!

11 Likes

My initial hunch is:

I am strongly opposed to different leaderboards for different seasons in the case of kinship.

My solution to this would be:

let start H2-Gotchis at higher kinship.

maybe at 200? (and accordingly higher for H3, H4, H(n)…)

or maybe the median of kinship of all existing Gotchis at a certain snapshot-time?

I love the idea of the „dependability-leaderboard“ - true dedication in thinking about the matter, thank you!

A lot of great points made by others too, so I want to put more thought into it myself before commenting on XP and BRS. And I have the feeling, that I also will want to take into account the contents of the litepaper after the 23rd this month.

4 Likes

On XP and Kinship Seasonal Leaderboards.

The point of adding this leaderboard (whether it is one delta leaderboard or two all time + seasonal leaderboards) is to make the game more fair and incentivized for new comers. Therefore, we need to limit the capacity of top Season 1 players to dominate the S2 Seasonal/Delta Kinship and XP as well. Otherwise, if we cannot stop top S1 players to win S2 easily, then it devaluate this initiative, new players need to have a chance in getting top 10 kinship and XP in S2.

I’ll suggest discussing the following rule, only items/XP earned during a specific season can count towards this specific Seasonal/Delta leaderboard.

  • Kinship: Existing potion should not provide any advantage in S2 Seasonal/Delta Kinship competition. Only potions that are earned after S1 ended can count towards Kinship in S2. However, they will still always count towards All time Leaderboard, just not for Seasonal/Delta leaderboard. As a consequence, hoarding items is less incentivized, and using items is incentivized; which I believe is very positive for the game but I could be wrong.

  • XP: Similarly, XP earned during S1 will not count towards S2. That means, I can’t sacrifice my top S1 XP gotchi to get in the top of the S2 Seasonal/Delta leaderboard.
    Let’s say I have a gotchi that ended Season 1 with 1k XP and earned 100 XP during the ongoing season 2. If I sacrifice it, the XP earned for the target Gotchi will be 1100 XP, but only 100 XP would be added to the S2 Seasonal/Delta XP leaderboard reward calculation for that target Gotchi.

1 Like

On BRS leaderboard:

Having two BRS leaderboards doesn’t incentivize new players, because old players will have more frens and get more new wearables than new players anyway. In this sense, it does not make sense to have 2 BRS leaderboards, because it has no value to new players. However, I believe it can have some value to incentivize new wearables/gotchis. The goal is just different than seasonal XP and Kinship leaderboard.

I like the idea of current season wearables/gotchis to have some kind of advantage towards other wearables/gotchis for the specific season only. This will add value to FRENS, because new items will have more value towards rarity farming. Similarly, this will probably drive some activty on the Maarket, which will generate funds for the treasury. Potentially, depending on the model for H2, we could get more funds from H2 sale because of increased demand for people that want to compete in S2, therefore higher rewards for everyone.
Also, this will create more dynamic gameplay in my opinion, as even top 3 players will have to make moves, otherwise Winklevoss might stay Top 1 of the next Seasonal Season without doing anything.

I see two main ways of doing that.

  • One Leaderboard:
    Have only one leaderboard, where current season gotchi and/or wearables get a bonus for that seasonal leaderboard. This could be +X BRS or +Y% for H2 Gotchi and S2 wearables in the rarity reward calculation.

  • Two Leaderboards: (CryptoGotchi idea)

  1. Relative rarity all-time: Considering ARS, BRS AND relative rarity of equipped wearables.
  2. Relative rarity only H2 and only new wearables: Neither H1 Gotchis, nor wearables minted before H2 are eligible.
2 Likes

I’ve been thinking about this and I’m starting to like this idea. But, after reading most comments here one thing is clear: no matter how we do it, by introducing new leaderboards you are already devaluating past gotchis and wearables to some extent, cause you’ll disqualify them for part of the rewards. Not saying it’s a bad thing, just that if we want to balance the game for new players this will have to happen. But yeah, should be balanced somehow.

Also, no matter how we do it, it will be pay to win somehow, cause big pockets can still buy new gotchis and wearables to be eligible for all rewards (even if we want to include only new unique addresses they could just make a new wallet). Personally I’m not 100% against pay to win, I think some pay to win elements is what drives some games’ economy and even help some small players make money, but I believe
it can’t be all like that and including some kind of balance with sweat equity is very important as well.

With all that said, I like @CryptoGotchi ideas as a start, and we’ll see what happens.

1 Like

Much more funds will be captured per sale for H2 than it was for H1.
H2 Rewards pool will be substantially larger. Not a fan of the scarcity mentality of immediately thinking how to exclude H1 gotchi from reward pools, expecially kinship (just forget about all that dedication?)
Case could then be made that H1 went through all the hardships (lil pump?) and a much smaller rewards pool only for H2 to come and enjoy much higher rewards per satoshi invested?
This goes way against the “Circle of Win” advertised, speaking of simply cutting rewards for a segment of the community on a whim, seems very toxic to me TBH.
A solution of “just sacrifice or replace” sounds like churn as well.

Market might flood now with H1 gotchi and portals- and why would someone buy them over anything H2 if there’s no rewards? Anybody thought of this?

While I understand the need to entice new users, as an early backer I feel pushed away by some of the stances displayed in this thread. Don’t find it encouraging at all to replace/sacrifice gotchis every season to stay relevant.

8 Likes

I have many follow-up thoughts on this matter. I think this is a pivotal issue for the project which could make it or break it. I believe a framework for sustainable rewards beyond Seasons 1&2, and into the future, is badly needed.

For starters, the point has been made that if season 2 is mainly funded by H2, then H2 gotchi should get most or all of szn2 rewards. This is incorrect! Please recall AGIP6, already feeding the rewards contract, and the fact that apparently some reaalm land sales may take place before H2. So we would have all these different activities generating rewards by H1 owners, directed to H2 exclusively? Seems wrong.

@CryptoGotchi made a great point when using new gotchi/fren Burger King as an example. This individual spent over 100K GHST in wearables, gotchis and potions in what they probably felt was catching-up and preparing for season 2. Even when chugging potions, they were playing by the rules and parameters offered to them by the platform. To turn around and tell them now it was all for novelty as they are excluded from Season 2 (as decided in some forum), and the community most definitely favors completely ignoring the 13k GHST they spent on potions…well… :feelsbadman:

Regarding H2 and ARS/BRS leaderboards: We must keep in mind that when anybody purchases and equips a powered wearable, they lower the standing/reward of EVERYBODY ELSE below them in BRS by one. The game is zero-sum in this way. Cognitively, during Season1, when someone bought items and suddenly outranked you, you could feel they were at least feeding the rewards pool in some way. As currently proposed in this thread- all H2 wearable sales would feed a reward pool greatly tilted towards H2, while excluding H1. So it would be a double whammy, as these H2 sales happen, H1 owners know they won’t partake in most of those rewards, and the one category that they do (BRS), they will see their positioning greatly diminish.

I propose that AGIP6 funds and reaalm sale funds DO NOT distinguish between haunts. These are the kinds of activities that should benefit the ENTIRE community, and excluding H1 gotchis is as toxic as excluding devs from these funds in my view. We are supposed to be a decentralized community after all! This can be achieved by forking the rewards pool contract into more than one.

Further, for a sustainable model moving forward across seasons:

-Portal sales of a new haunt could fund up to 100% of a rewards pool exclusive for that haunt.

-Wearable sales during said haunt should be exclusive for that haunt’s rewards pool by a factor no larger than 20-30%, because inclusive rewards offset loss of rarity/positioning for everyone.

9 Likes

In the long term whatever is agreed upon will have to continue to work through H2,H3,H4 and so on…segregating rewards between Gotchi’s will only cause animosity between frens as our GotchiGang’s scale up.

Agree with alot of the great discussion, but it sounds like Kinship and its utility in RF will continue to be a hot topic for debate.

2 Likes

Excluding h1 gotchis from Game(cuz it looks like that, Genocide) is sounds like a racism. †

(!) Every haaunt, previous haaunt just must go up in price, and be better then a new one. But seems like plm think opposite, like OG go rekt, newbeis go Jet

Cuz it’ll be never happen again and stuff, OG STUFF, or we don’t care about the legacy and all the goods of leaving something after ur self in this life?
I though to toss my gotchis to grand sons, lol, not burning em to toss XP and earn MOAR, AGAIN (monkey claps, claps, claps, jumps, claps). Lol.
U rowanna burn? ok keep em n enjoy just 4 a look. Right? :\ Yeah. A dream…

To translate it to my language - let’s rug h1 gotchis and it’s whole wearables without the rug! How? We will say that h1 and items from there(lol, really? how can it be in game to turn off the items) will be worthless in szn2 cuz of h2. Nice.

This is shouldn’t be that way.
We are looking for unions, not separations.

If we want h1 items to have nothing for h2, ok, gimme my money back for h1 items then, and to all of us.
I don’t think that it’s a good idea about items nerf, at all.

I repeat, nerfing items is not a good idea At all, IMO.

New players were always the one, who’s fighting for competition. Trying to reach, it was always this way, when one player more early then another.
Taking both, Kinship and XP rewards out of the rewards from all seasons at all, might be the conclusion that we trying to seek here.

(!) Only just - BRS+ARS vs BRS+ARS - couldn’t be more fair then anything else.

Kinship \ XP rewards going to the new One Trait board, while all time board still have a place to be.

Kinship nerf = My waisted sleeping time, alarms and nerves about not been able to pet em and stuff, feels like a heartbreaking, for the virgin girl that been used only once and thrown away after. But, KINship utility is on the way with the Realms.

XP nerf = When i read it at first my reaction was like - what? O_O
Is there any games that don’t give a **** about player previous earned XP?

Tossing XP = A spit on the Badges.

How to fix this?
We need to change to entire flow of Aavegotchi, from PvP to PvE. IMHO.
We need realm for it.
We need a Player vs Game, and there, will be ur rewards.
I want it that way.
Not the like “who’s finger is longer” for the whole future ahead.
But if we (h1) will get rekt in szn2 and so on since h2, i think it’ll be a bloody mess.

2 Likes

This is very true. I agree.

Agree again, I’ve seen nerfs fail more than succeed for 20 years, and don’t expect it to change now. It’s about precedent. My main reason to spend 100X on a blockchain game vs a regular MMO was the nerf-prevention, but here we are setting up precedents for nerfs. And most are ok with it

Yep, afraid that as before, some act as advocates of affordability etc but they really just want to use H2 as means to reshuffle the game and leaderboards in their favor. If they game H2 and the H1 nerf successfully, will they take their turn in the H3 nerf with a smile? Slippery slope… the game becomes like many shitcoins, a race to sell your gotchi before the value crash.

1 Like

(just my reasonings)
I was thinking about the our data at first…
Do we have anyone on the Aavegotchi team on board, with the data analytics? Like a markets data, about the portals, gotchis and items.
I can tell, there is a few MMs already there, working good, and we need to analyze it, to understand more, that every market on Aavegotchi is it’s self unique market.
Like a token. Ok, we have diamond for portals and gotchis< but imo they need to be separated, cuz portals also not the same diamonds = closed not = opened. So it should be taken more deeply, then just thinking that item market fully diluted is the real total market price itself with the tons of ghst of MC in ghst.
Not really, and also, if we would consider the market volume, after counting the data, as demand, we might to get closer to the point of understanding the needs of the future curve changes.
As i think, if we would count the portals, gotchis and items markets as independent market inside the market, and it’s really cool that everything in the ghst price.

~kek~
Maybe we need kind of a Caasino?
When you can put your item on the special marketplace aka Caasino (Original idea of shaaft(lord) Laatery), it can be oppened for bet’s + you can bet on it with your own item where we are kinda implementing barter system + we can use frens there as well aka re-raffling it with frens in Caasino? + of you can bet with ghst, i think it would be cool if it can be also made in UI like a tables with poker, one hand bandits 777, few dice tables, boxing ring(i think BRS\ARS can be used as HP points)? lol
~kek~

So if we dig to the Gotchis market (it’s our target, not portals btw), the floor will be set around 250-300, for bad hands who dump 0 kinship gotchis. U can find a normal one around 400, playable around 600.
But it doesn’t mean that we need to sell the portal drops at this prices, it’s an entry, and initial portal drops should be that way, randomed, cuz if we will auc them all, there will be guesses, number picks, etc etc, but that’s a secondary market conditions story, not initial.
Entry, is blind, for the game with the randomness, i want more randomness, everywhere, random rules. Random is fair. Random is the result. When ppl bought portals on the drop, the bought blindly, with the line of order, and took numbers they got.
Having cheap portals is good, closed portals that r unseen, no numbers, but after having them an hands i can see my value, my numbers, my door, that i feel, to sell, open or keep.
Who can take my value from the closed portal from me in my opinion? No one, since it’s on open market, and we can set the price for portal, since every portal is 1\1 nft. We choose the prices, customer agree or not, and he moving on, looking another portal, price, number etc.

Rewards…
XP and haaunts…
I was asking for editable info bar for gotchis, to make BIO for them, but… (kek)

Let’s set XP lists in gotchis UI, same like badge, when u click, u see szn 1 xp earned = ***
szn 2 xp earned = ****
And based just on that, we don’t need to erase xp every time, or toss it to another, cuz every szn will have it’s own szn xp, but gotchi keep it and grow with it in lvl and etc same one, no badge burn or other murders, same my sons from AAltairs priests pls, they will eat well! Pls no! Lol xD
It could be made as a separate XP dashboard, or just a badges in inventory after szns, (for the rewards counting system it’s a drop of XP to 0, checkpoint, but for us, it’s an achievement and badge in inventory + xp is remaining in gotchi and everything rainbow and etc

Kinship rewards…
Though one. Kinship. Kinship for me is a headache. I’m normy (why I think of “Kermit the frog” from seasam street lol>?), can’t srypt\dev\code still, so i do hands, i do alarm, a do forget, i do have go mad when it’s shprooked, and no gas or whatever help, i loose my time, i pay MY TIME, my life, to Pet, to baazaar, to DAO.
We need to reward active users and its Backers, continue, without making them fear and shake in unknown eternal and full no kinship darkness future.
It’s cool that KIN will go big in Realm, but we still need to make our gotchis be proud, of been a part of it’s community, DAO, market, life and our time together here and there, together as organization, i can tell that we making more bridges for sure. We went through so many stuff, an our kinship points remember that through transactions, omg.

So this, this needs to be bond with Kinship. Bond our life \ time that we spent smashing the PET button cuz of NETWORK SRY. But MAN, we spend TIME, spent active time is the thing that all de APPeS are looking for.
But I’m not a Doctors degee in it, so sry if I’m wrong, show me the way pls, it’ll help.
And yeah, In that time, we do spend $.
So how can we smash this hands, that hold the game and believe, to make a newcomers come on this tear for h2 and szn2, no that way, no.
We need to honor the people who strong, who hold, who believe.
Protect them.
Not to put in danger. Bad parent, bad!
Where Kinship is the face your gotchi, your opinion about the game, your care.
Wher ppl drank kin potions, the believe so deep, don’t make em keked pls ok?
Yeah, we got teased with LP, so, just a lil left until the new feed.

Only kinship need it’s seasonal reward desk in counts, imo.
But this XP idea that i say, is the same seasonal XP as said above before.
But i feel like XP in this case is the great example of the Tolerance curve that we need to implement for consumables or anywhere else.
Drink more, works less, one day addicted, give +0 fro normal +1 for great, must feed everyday.

Fantastic point. There are many participants in the Aavegotchi ecosystem. We know of a certain arber that’s made over 1million GHST. A single person, 1million! Entire rewards pool for szn1 (to split among 7k gotchi) was 1.4 milllion. Out of respect, I will not run maths on Pixelcraft’s profit. There are also bazaar bots and manual resellers, those participants have made a killing! Early stakers! OMG early stakers were handed out godlikes, several godlikes via raffles for their patronage and they’ve sold those godlikes at crazy profits. Should we consider the GHST pre-sale investors? They have made a killing as well. Now… onto the demographic/participants that have experienced the LEAST ROI/profit so far in the platform. Care to guess who they are? Yep, those that instead of continuing to stake, or take their money elsewhere, those who believed most in the product to actually buy and hodl it. Those who helped frens out and bought gotchis and wearables in the bazaar and have pet them since.

The average ROI in the top 50 rarity leaderboard over season 1 in rewards was 10-15%. Apparently that was enough, or too much, based on the attitudes I’ve read above. Makes no sense to me TBH. The message I’m hearing is I may be an idiot for actually spending the GHST into the ecosystem, vs staking and reselling raffle tickets for instance. The message is that the core product is the least profitable one, but a mechanism for every other participant to indeed profit, quite risk-free in many cases, thanks to our idiocy or love for digital pixels. If H1 gotchi owners were profiting at the expense of every other participant, if the ROI had already surpassed 100% on rewards alone, then talks of nerf would make at least a bit more sense to me.

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This seems like a poorly thought out solution.
I don’t want to sound too negative, but this is the worst suggestion I have heard from the dev team so far. What you suggest strikes me as harmful, and far from a legitimate option.
We can’t speak on mainstream adoption goals while simultaneously off-putting current investors. This is asinine. There seem to be a lot more cons than pros, and if something like this were actually implemented I see the first con as spitting in the face of decentralization.

Why would anybody trust that their investment is safe if you might nerf specific haunts later?

Why would you want to devalue previous haunts by creating inclusions for new haunts?

The issues you speak of wouldn’t exist if any of the previous discussions were actually taken seriously.
There have been multiple very well received solutions proposed, like for instance resetting kinship and XP to allow for a fresh restart each season, yet it seems like these suggestions have been breezed past just like Cryptogotchi’s proposal to change the Kinship tie breaker last season. It’s almost embarrassing how well received the idea was without any follow through.

It behooves me to say that if this is a repeat occurrence you are most likely starting a process of alienating your H1 investors.

2 Likes

Main point I’ve been trying to drive home, with years of experience in financial sales, the one big NO is introduce uncertainty or avenues for a change of terms (nerf) when not needed.

Did Aavegotchi suddenly enter a trade war with a nation? Are we clogging shipping lanes across borders? Too big to fail? Why are we thinking of limiting our potential? Our entire community really adds up to a plankton in the big scheme of things, why are we looking inwardly where to nerf/cut? The liquidity, growth opportunities , etc are beyond our walls and we need to work together to capture them.

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I second everything JG is saying.

Is there any other game in the world where they change the rules or incentives to reward new entrants at the direct expense of the players who got the game to where it is? Should the NBA change shot distance rules, ball size, and hoop size so that new players and teams can more easily compete with established ones? Would it create a healthy WoW ecosystem to reset hero levels every 4 months so new players can win? Would it be fun to play Mario Kart if you couldn’t start your 2nd lap until everyone has completed the 1st? Blue shells are frustrating as hell, no?

Inflicting pain on some to create rewards/advantage for others is never a good idea. We need competition that includes everyone. Old players need to see that all the investment was worth it; new players need to see that their investment will pay off and there’s a path to being competitive.

Don’t you eager beavers realize that H2 will be the next H1 before you know it? That your big gains and efforts will be thrown away when the same thing happens for H3 at the end of the year?

Rarity–new players have a pretty level playing field. Anyone can open an H2 portal with a competitive gotchi inside. New wearables will be released to give them the same shot as everyone in H1.

Kinship–There should be some rubberbanding for newbies, but not a teleporter ahead for them. I love the idea of dependability as long as there’s some weighting for total kinship score or length of time petting. Can’t have someone summoning a gotchi 12 hours before the snapshot and petting it perfectly for 100% dependability. A separate leaderboard for H2 kinship is, frankly, insane. It’s against the originally-conveyed spirit of kinship, sends all the wrong messages, and sets a terrible precedent for future haunts and competitions. I want to play Aavegotchi longterm, but it’s a huge turnoff to be forced to buy new gotchis every single haunt just to compete in the only non-whale game.

The idea of spending kinship on other things is a wonderful example of good rubberbanding, since it makes new players more competitive without forcing anything on old players. The choice to spend kinship will be, and should be, a bitch for new and old players alike.

XP–as soon as there are many more opportunities to earn XP, this will take care of itself, I think. No rubberbanding is needed, as long as engagement (hopefully not too grindy) really does move you up the XP leaderboard. Just like in any videogame, XP is satisfying when you find yourself leveling up. You don’t expect to match the big dogs when you first join.

Let’s think longterm, guys. Listen to what JG, I, and others are saying. Pain for current players is not a legitimate source of fuel to grow the game.

8 Likes